Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

we'll find out in new heaven/new earth ...

Revelation 22:1-5 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

.

well mam more rainbows for you

This was the very verse I was thinking of when I asked you.

Do you think this tree of life is different to the tree of life in the garden

 

[Magenta]

The "system" requires the denial of the ability to believe the Good News to uphold the false notion based on a completely

wrong interpretation of a few verses in scripture.

The system is all built on a false doctrine that god creates certain people for salvation (they are part of

that group) and others for damnation.

So this means that Christ Jesus only shed his blood for those he created for salvation.

Can't have one without the other, it is a package deal really if one wants to maintain any kind of consistency.

If you really sit down and think about it, you see how very primitive this entire theological system is, but people still believe it.

The free will belief requires that you contradict and deny deny deny what the Bible explicitly states.

It is even more primitive than believing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as taught by the disciples/apostles of Christ.

You also rewrite Scripture, have a habit of butchering it to make it say what you want it to rather than what it actually does, while refusing to acknowledge what it actually says, calling explicit articulations eisegisis, and claim corroborating parallel verses are taken out of context. You would rather blaspheme God than admit any error.

Well we know you do not care about truth, since you misrepresent it so very often, and not only Scripture, but the views of others, your own self, and also the record of history, because you love your logical fallacies as much as your falsehoods. And we have never seen you beg forgiveness for your repeated false depictions of what the Bile says, as you claim those you oppose should do, or even for blaspheming God, which you have done a number of times... no apologies there, no begging forgiveness, not even saying you should not have said the things you have, no acknowledgement that you are so glaringly obviously wrong one could be excused for thinking you had not even ever read the Bible to begin with before making your proclamations. No, instead you claim you are defending God's character, even as you support others who shamelessly blaspheme God. When you are corrected, when you contradict and deny what the Bible explicitly articulates, and it is pointed out to you again and again what it actually says, you simply repeat what you have been saying all along, and tell us relevant verses have been taken out of context. You and your Pelagian heretic buddies contradict and outright deny so much of what is explicitly stated.

Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the man of flesh (unregenerated) cannot submit to or obey God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, it can. Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he is not. Scripture says the gospel is hid. Your view is, the gospel is not hid. Jesus said not everyone hears. Your view is, everyone hears. Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Your view is, the flesh can choose to make a decision a plethora of Scriptures say it cannot, to please God and bring forth fruit unto life. Scripture says the devil has taken people captive to do his will. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, man has a will that is free. Scripture says no man can come to God unless God draws them. Your view is, divine intervention is not necessary. Your view is, man has everything he needs to come to believe. Scripture makes plain certain things are only known through the Spirit and revelation which you continually denigrate. Scripture shows over and over again from Genesis all the way through to Revelation that God reveals Himself differently from one person to the next. Your view is, God is unfair if He were to reveal Himself in any way differently from one person to the next. Your view is those you disagree with should preach in cemeteries, then you lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. Your view is to not only blaspheme God yourself, but agree with those who blaspheme God in other ways. Along with other free willers, you come across as despising God's sovereignty, and call Him doing things for His own purposes doing them "for no good reason." No matter how you look at it, your theological stance on this issue directly contradicts and outright denies what the Bible explicitly articulates in a number of places, and you are not likely to change it any time soon because to bring your view into line with what Scripture actually teaches would bring your whole house of cards down, and demolish your vain self-exalting stance. You cannot have that, since you are far too attached to your ear-tickling doctrine. One could even say you were in love with it. You certainly love it more than the Truth of Scripture.

 

[Jordon]

I should revise that taking an oath like that is a sin. My bad it's 4 am here before work.

That's good m.

It's not so much an oath really but a strong will in me that realises after spending my whole life to discipline my flesh daily with his word, for me having people tell me the will of the flesh holds value to God just doesn't compute m

It's like this really m

The free will camp will call people calvinists all day long and call your beliefs Calvinism.

But if you challenge there beliefs as deism they put you on ignore,

Would you say that's being a hypocrite m

 

[Jordon]

The free will belief requires that you contradict and deny deny deny what the Bible explicitly states.

It is even more primitive than believing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as taught by the disciples/apostles of Christ.

You also rewrite Scripture, have a habit of butchering it to make it say what you want it to rather than what it actually does, while refusing to acknowledge what it actually says, calling explicit articulations eisegisis, and claim corroborating parallel verses are taken out of context. You would rather blaspheme God than admit any error.

Well we know you do not care about truth, since you misrepresent it so very often, and not only Scripture, but the views of others, your own self, and also the record of history, because you love your logical fallacies as much as your falsehoods. And we have never seen you beg forgiveness for your repeated false depictions of what the Bile says, as you claim those you oppose should do, or even for blaspheming God, which you have done a number of times... no apologies there, no begging forgiveness, not even saying you should not have said the things you have, no acknowledgement that you are so glaringly obviously wrong one could be excused for thinking you had not even ever read the Bible to begin with before making your proclamations. No, instead you claim you are defending God's character, even as you support others who shamelessly blaspheme God. When you are corrected, when you contradict and deny what the Bible explicitly articulates, and it is pointed out to you again and again what it actually says, you simply repeat what you have been saying all along, and tell us relevant verses have been taken out of context. You and your Pelagian heretic buddies contradict and outright deny so much of what is explicitly stated.

Scripture says, the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. Your view is, it can. Scripture says the man of flesh (unregenerated) cannot submit to or obey God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot receive the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says the natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he can. Scripture says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, it can. Scripture says the natural man is opposed to the spiritual things of God. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, he is not. Scripture says the gospel is hid. Your view is, the gospel is not hid. Jesus said not everyone hears. Your view is, everyone hears. Scripture says flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Your view is, the flesh can choose to make a decision a plethora of Scriptures say it cannot, to please God and bring forth fruit unto life. Scripture says the devil has taken people captive to do his will. Your view, and the view of free willers, is, man has a will that is free. Scripture says no man can come to God unless God draws them. Your view is, divine intervention is not necessary. Your view is, man has everything he needs to come to believe. Scripture makes plain certain things are only known through the Spirit and revelation which you continually denigrate. Scripture shows over and over again from Genesis all the way through to Revelation that God reveals Himself differently from one person to the next. Your view is, God is unfair if He were to reveal Himself in any way differently from one person to the next. Your view is those you disagree with should preach in cemeteries, then you lie about conflating spiritual death with physical death. Your view is to not only blaspheme God yourself, but agree with those who blaspheme God in other ways. Along with other free willers, you come across as despising God's sovereignty, and call Him doing things for His own purposes doing them "for no good reason." No matter how you look at it, your theological stance on this issue directly contradicts and outright denies what the Bible explicitly articulates in a number of places, and you are not likely to change it any time soon because to bring your view into line with what Scripture actually teaches would bring your whole house of cards down, and demolish your vain self-exalting stance. You cannot have that, since you are far too attached to your ear-tickling doctrine. One could even say you were in love with it. You certainly love it more than the Truth of Scripture.

I wonder if she could take your concerns on board m

 

[Magenta]

I wonder if she could take your concerns on board m

Are you kidding? They don't care. .

 

[Jordon]

Are you kidding? They don't care. .

maybe they will listen to Clint Eastwood m

I wonder if our friend @Cameron could tell me this is really clints voice ?

 

[Genez]

you'll be well at home with him just like you he's a Calvinist basher and just like you no doubt hes a troll hiding behind the word of God

Calvinism has its problems.
It is not perfect and contains errors.

Those who desire to grow in grace and knowledge have received correction.
Those who have done so, may be called as witnesses to show you why, you are without excuse.

The Lord is evaluating you now.

Here is a trustworthy saying:

2 Timothy 2:11-12

If we died with him,​

we will also live with him;​

if we endure,​

we will also reign with him.​

If we deny him,​

he will also deny us.​

If you continue as you have been doing?
He will deny you rewards, refusing you the honor to reign with Him.

You will be saved!

But with nothing to show other than your resurrection body.

In the meanwhile, you have been clinging to your old man's resentments and mental sins.
You are denying Him his desire to transform you to live no more with your pettiness and resentments.

Its up to you!
You decide.

Here is what each one of us will face.

Some will win.
Others will discover in shame, that they willed to be a loser.
But, no loser will lose his salvation.

As shown here.....

​

1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

​

For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, ​

straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be ​

revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work ​

which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, ​

he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. ​

You'll remain saved no matter what.

Deny Him now?
He will deny you your rewards.
That is what that says.

.......

 

[Genez]

Are you kidding? They don't care. .

The Lord cares.

 

[cv5]

God definitely gave us free will. That's how we prove that we really love him because we choose to. It wouldn't mean anything if we didn't have free will. This goes right back to the Garden of Eden. Mankind had a choice to listen to Gods instruction or to listen to Satan. We had to leave the Garden of Eden because of choice. God said in Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
How could we have dominion over something if we didn't have free will. We have free will and our actions have consequences.

Deuteronomy 30:19 Today I invoke heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore choose life so that you and your descendants may live!

Of course. The super-determinist view is a form of insanity IMO. Self-imposed....

 

[HeIsHere]

The Lord cares.

And that is why we follow the traditional, correct orthodox view of the process of salvation described in scripture not the one rewritten by men.

 

[Cameron143]

maybe they will listen to Clint Eastwood m

I wonder if our friend @Cameron could tell me this is really clints voice ?

It's a great testimony. Sounds like Clint, but can't verify that.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No. Humans make choices. So do dogs. But dogs don't make human choices. They make dog choices because they have a dog nature. They can choose to bark, but they cannot choose to talk. Similarly, fallen man makes choices consistent with his fallen nature.

Which is still the image of God, albeit marred

Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. James 3:9-10​

 

[cv5]

If there wasn't free will why does the bible again and again show that people disobey God and then there was a punishment for it ? Adam and eve eatting the apple, God destroying the earth and only Noah and his family survived. The Israelites being exiled out of their land.

If there wasn't free will why does the bible again and again show that people disobey God and then there was a punishment for it ? God flooded the earth and only Noah and his family survived. The Israelites being exiled out of their land. The bible shows time and time again that people didn't obey God and there were punishments. There are so many examples throughout the bible of people turning away from God and disobedience. You couldn't have disobedience without free will.

Google Ai answer ****
According to Christian theology, Satan wanted to be God out of pride, desiring to usurp God's throne and claim his power and authority. This ambition is famously described in Isaiah 14:12-14, where he is depicted as saying, "I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will be like the Most High". His motivation was rooted in a desire for self-exaltation, power, and worship, leading to his rebellion against God and subsequent fall from heaven.

I believe that we are given free will to choose who we want to follow. God or Satan.

Pretty much yep.

 

[Cameron143]

Which is still the image of God, albeit marred

Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. James 3:9-10​

Adam actually had free will initially, unencumbered by the effect of sin. Eve as well. The only person born free of the effect of sin was Jesus. Everyone else has been limited in their choices by the fallen nature present in them.

 

[Jordon]

Adam actually had free will initially, unencumbered by the effect of sin. Eve as well. The only person born free of the effect of sin was Jesus. Everyone else has been limited in their choices by the fallen nature present in them.

would you say that was Gods will he had m

 

[Genez]

If our will were not involved in God saving us?

If we can not resist the drawing of God? (as TULIP Calvinists claim)

Then it would make absolutely no sense why Jesus made so many severe wanings about Hell.

He taught about Hell as to influence those who had been resisting God's drawing.

.......

 

[Genez]

No. Humans make choices. So do dogs. But dogs don't make human choices. They make dog choices because they have a dog nature. They can choose to bark, but they cannot choose to talk. Similarly, fallen man makes choices consistent with his fallen nature.

Dogs are not required to choose about God.

The only ones who are in such a position are angels and man.

 

[Magenta]

Adam actually had free will initially, unencumbered by the effect of sin. Eve as well. The only person born free of
the effect of sin was Jesus. Everyone else has been limited in their choices by the fallen nature present in them.

Pelagian heretics don't like that Biblical truth. They prefer to believe man is not the guy Scripture makes him out to be.

They want to believe man can please God with his incurably wicked heart by doing the things Scripture says he cannot.

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18

 

[HeIsHere]

If our will were not involved in God saving us?

If we can not resist the drawing of God? (as TULIP Calvinists claim)

Then it would make absolutely no sense why Jesus made so many severe warnings about Hell.

He taught about Hell as to influence those who had been resisting God's drawing.

.......

So many problems with TULIP, so much inconsistency when viewed in the light of scripture, the full picture, not just the supposed proof texts.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Adam actually had free will initially, unencumbered by the effect of sin. Eve as well. The only person born free of the effect of sin was Jesus. Everyone else has been limited in their choices by the fallen nature present in them.

Everyone else has been limited in their ability to do their choices. Christ removed that inability.