Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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If there wasn't free will why does the bible again and again show that people disobey God and then there was a punishment for it ? Adam and eve eatting the apple, God destroying the earth and only Noah and his family survived. The Israelites being exiled out of their land.
What do you mean, if? Go read your Bible and stop being deceived by philosophical constructs, and believing Adam and Eve ate an apple. Man is without excuse. He knows God exists but suppresses the truth in unrighteous and refuses to come into the light because... guess why? Because his deeds are evil and he does not want to be exposed. He loves darkness. He hates the light, and is hostile in his mind toward God. He is a slave to sin, taken captive to do the will of the devil, which people call being free because they are likewise deceived. He cannot comprehend the light in the natural state. Only the spiritual man can do that. These things are all explicitly articulated in Scripture. What if you read the Bible and come to believe what it says instead of what ancient Greek philosophers taught?

Colossians2-8-Romans16-18-Romans10-2-Proverbs19-2.png

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
 
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What do you mean, if? Go read your Bible and stop being deceived by philosophical constructs, and believing Adam and Eve ate an apple. Man is without excuse. He knows God exists but suppresses the truth in unrighteous and refuses to come into the light because... guess why? Because his deeds are evil and he does not want to be exposed. He loves darkness. He hates the light, and is hostile in his mind toward God. He is a slave to sin, taken captive to do the will of the devil, which people call being free because they are likewise deceived. He cannot comprehend the light in the natural state. Only the spiritual man can do that. These things are all explicitly articulated in Scripture. What if you read the Bible and come to believe what it says instead of what ancient Greek philosophers taught?

Colossians2-8-Romans16-18-Romans10-2-Proverbs19-2.png

Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge. They teach as doctrine the precepts of men.
Are you saying that humans had no choice in their sins ?
 
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If there wasn't free will why does the bible again and again show that people disobey God and then there was a punishment for it ? Adam and eve eatting the apple, God destroying the earth and only Noah and his family survived. The Israelites being exiled out of their land.

If there wasn't free will why does the bible again and again show that people disobey God and then there was a punishment for it ? God flooded the earth and only Noah and his family survived. The Israelites being exiled out of their land. The bible shows time and time again that people didn't obey God and there were punishments. There are so many examples throughout the bible of people turning away from God and disobedience. You couldn't have disobedience without free will.

Google Ai answer ****
According to Christian theology, Satan wanted to be God out of pride, desiring to usurp God's throne and claim his power and authority. This ambition is famously described in Isaiah 14:12-14, where he is depicted as saying, "I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will be like the Most High". His motivation was rooted in a desire for self-exaltation, power, and worship, leading to his rebellion against God and subsequent fall from heaven.

I believe that we are given free will to choose who we want to follow. God or Satan.

The "system" requires the denial of the ability to believe the Good News to uphold the false notion based on a completely

wrong interpretation of a few verses in scripture.

The system is all built on a false doctrine that god creates certain people for salvation (they are part of

that group) and others for damnation.

So this means that Christ Jesus only shed his blood for those he created for salvation.

Can't have one without the other, it is a package deal really if one wants to maintain any kind of consistency.

If you really sit down and think about it, you see how very primitive this entire theological system is, but people still believe it.
 
Spiritoftruth.png

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)
 
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Whatever mate. Go back to ignore. :)

grace and peace.
Hooefukly you'll cut of your flesh today and depart it from Genez permanently, as he's only going to make you more irresistible to not recognising you've been a hypocrite,.as he's a master of that mana
 
Are you saying that humans had no choice in their sins ?
I am telling you what the Bible says. First comes the natural, then comes the spiritual.

I referenced a multitude of Scriptures. Do you not believe what the Bible says?


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James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .:)
 
Are you saying that humans had no choice in their sins ?

That would be correct, and God leaves them in their sin because they are wicked and he hates them.

He does love those he created for salvation though, so kinda balances out kinda like ying and yang.
 
For believers it's all honey from the bumble bee inside, and believing should have a good healthy stigma full of grace 🤩

But what about the bee looking for pollen . In a place where the stigma is highly stigmatising void and empty of Gods word. A place where the seed is not producing any good nectar m.

How could that little bee help that poor little flower produce pollen, well this is where cross pollination comes in to play by mutual acceptance, but theres a snag, the seed is not only void of any of God's active living pollen, it's dormant m.

How could the life giving bee inject its life giving pollen with acceptance m.


Someone has to give something first m. What could it be
in the bee analogy the bee takes pollen from one flower and implants it in another flower. that is not how God imparts His Word.

God has believers who are faithful to Him and who are filled by Him. God sends His faithful believers to speak the truth of His Word ... His Word is a living Word and, if believed, the one who believes receives the promise. For those who do not believe, there is a consequence ... and I'm not just speaking of the gospel by which one is born again. All of God's Word is profitable for those who believe.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

.
 
Just a thought: But maybe the reason for all the arguing here, is due to the two main camps differing in their interpretations of the term FREE WILL, especially, of course, in it's determination of Salvation?

What I mean, therefore, is that could it be that we're actually all in agreement with what leads to Salvation, without realising it?

What are your thoughts?!
I appreciate the thought m,

But the issue is this crew here are doings works for devil having every good word of God seen as a twisted ideology of Calvinism, that's also a a clear miss representation of What John Calvin lived for m.

The real issue is having every good word of God rejected over mans will.

The real issue is watching heresy upon heresy being commited and having to deal with there hate at the same time and I ain't even mentioned all the other issues.
 
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I wonder if the lusts of the flesh could also so be the free will of the flesh m. 🤔
lust is desire, craving, passion built on strong feelings ... the desires of the flesh are to be brought under control of the Holy Spirit so we do not follow through in allowing the lust to conceive and bring forth sin. For those who are not born again, the conscience tells us what's right, but the conscience is overridden by the over desire of the flesh. the conscience then pings us to let us know we were wrong.

I do not know that God's Word ever speaks of "free will of the flesh". There is that verse in John 1 which speaks of the will of the flesh.




Jordon said:
Sound pretty much like the flesh has a will of it's own, what would you say to that m.
I commented on John 1:13 ... you and I have not come to agreement concerning the meaning of the verse.




Jordon said:
But going back to bees m,.did you know that when it comes to bees m and they senses that the queen be is no longer producing little bees.

Did you know that many many bees will not know, and.its also those bees that are the king guardian bees protecting her.

Then what happens is some bees will fight to the death to get her, The bees.will say,

to bee or not bee as many die trying to get to her. But there job is to replace her.
I did not know that.




Jordon said:
I just wonder do you think the father is also in some ways,. this way ? In the case of, to bee or not bee as in what he wants for you m. 🤩
John 3:16-17 answers that ...

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

.
 
in the bee analogy the bee takes pollen from one flower and implants it in another flower. that is not how God imparts His Word.

God has believers who are faithful to Him and who are filled by Him. God sends His faithful believers to speak the truth of His Word ... His Word is a living Word and, if believed, the one who believes receives the promise. For those who do not believe, there is a consequence ... and I'm not just speaking of the gospel by which one is born again. All of God's Word is profitable for those who believe.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

.
Gods will is always seen in nature m.

And just like the bees his will says to bee or not to bee m 🤩
 
The main point Of discussion @reneweddaybyday was what would have happend if Adam and eve had not have sinned and eaten free from the tree of life.

Is it possible they would have been pollinated. 🤩.
we'll find out in new heaven/new earth ...

Revelation 22:1-5 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

.
 
Are you saying that humans had no choice in their sins ?
No. Humans make choices. So do dogs. But dogs don't make human choices. They make dog choices because they have a dog nature. They can choose to bark, but they cannot choose to talk. Similarly, fallen man makes choices consistent with his fallen nature.
 
lust is desire, craving, passion built on strong feelings ... the desires of the flesh are to be brought under control of the Holy Spirit so we do not follow through in allowing the lust to conceive and bring forth sin. For those who are not born again, the conscience tells us what's right, but the conscience is overridden by the over desire of the flesh. the conscience then pings us to let us know we were wrong.

I do not know that God's Word ever speaks of "free will of the flesh". There is that verse in John 1 which speaks of the will of the flesh.





I commented on John 1:13 ... you and I have not come to agreement concerning the meaning of the verse.





I did not know that.





John 3:16-17 answers that ...

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

.
The faith of the lord in John answers m 🙂🌈

And all the will of the lord answers in John

Look the will of to bee or not to bee from the lord



John 12:48

New International Version



48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
 
No. Humans make choices. So do dogs. But dogs don't make human choices. They make dog choices because they have a dog nature. They can choose to bark, but they cannot choose to talk. Similarly, fallen man makes choices consistent with his fallen nature.

Fallen nature according to scripture, not the the exoskelton one.
 
Its only going to be another 20.000 posts with you m, because like so many your freedom of thought turns to AI over God's will, AI IS a Program and it laughable that so many turn to a program whilst calling people robots 🤩

But still if I lowered myself to this mentality my freedom of thought would be winning if I now called you a program,

It's also not Good enough for you that you've had clear answers from his word, that you still would rather reject his word over AI.

What part of you that you have freedom of thought, do you not understand.

What part of you do you not. Understand about the word, that the will of man lives in the flesh.

What part of you do not understand that the will of God lives in your seed.

What part of you now will you not recognise that your flesh has no value to God,

Because the will of man live in the flesh and it's corrupted.

So now what part of you will not understand the will of man has no value to God
Using Ai as a study tool i dont see how it is wrong ? God made it possible for us humans to have Ai. Everything is about choices how we use it. We can use alcohol to clean things or to get drunk. We can have sex with a prostitute or have sex within marriage and make children and raise them up to be Christians. We can use our phone as a tool and do many useful things with it or we can watch porn on it.
I do believe that the will of the flesh is corrupt. My main argument is that we do have free will, to follow and obey God and live in the spirit. And encourage people to not live in the flesh but actively seek God with all their heart and all their mind and everything ! Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

One thing I would say on a different matter is we are to encourage each other to follow God . Matthew 5 :22
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 Corinthians 13:2
And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love you and keep on fighting the good fight !
 
lust is desire, craving, passion built on strong feelings ... the desires of the flesh are to be brought under control of the Holy Spirit so we do not follow through in allowing the lust to conceive and bring forth sin. For those who are not born again, the conscience tells us what's right, but the conscience is overridden by the over desire of the flesh. the conscience then pings us to let us know we were wrong.

I do not know that God's Word ever speaks of "free will of the flesh". There is that verse in John 1 which speaks of the will of the flesh.





I commented on John 1:13 ... you and I have not come to agreement concerning the meaning of the verse.





I did not know that.





John 3:16-17 answers that ...

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

.
so you don't recognise the lust of the flesh as the will of the flesh then m 🤩
 
Using Ai as a study tool i dont see how it is wrong ? God made it possible for us humans to have Ai. Everything is about choices how we use it. We can use alcohol to clean things or to get drunk. We can have sex with a prostitute or have sex within marriage and make children and raise them up to be Christians. We can use our phone as a tool and do many useful things with it or we can watch porn on it.
I do believe that the will of the flesh is corrupt. My main argument is that we do have free will, to follow and obey God and live in the spirit. And encourage people to not live in the flesh but actively seek God with all their heart and all their mind and everything ! Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

One thing I would say on a different matter is we are to encourage each other to follow God . Matthew 5 :22
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 Corinthians 13:2
And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love you and keep on fighting the good fight !
Ai stands for artificial intelligence. And it belongs to a data base that can only reason with the most popular answer of man.

And if you challenge it, it will change it's program to make you happy , 😊
 
Using Ai as a study tool i dont see how it is wrong ? God made it possible for us humans to have Ai. Everything is about choices how we use it. We can use alcohol to clean things or to get drunk. We can have sex with a prostitute or have sex within marriage and make children and raise them up to be Christians. We can use our phone as a tool and do many useful things with it or we can watch porn on it.
I do believe that the will of the flesh is corrupt. My main argument is that we do have free will, to follow and obey God and live in the spirit. And encourage people to not live in the flesh but actively seek God with all their heart and all their mind and everything ! Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

One thing I would say on a different matter is we are to encourage each other to follow God . Matthew 5 :22
But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 Corinthians 13:2
And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love you and keep on fighting the good fight !
for the word says m that even if you lust in heart you've still sinned before you've taking the lust into action

Which means m your freedom of thought is controlled by the will of the flesh, and note Jesus was speaking and preaching this to people whom had not yet been filled with the spirit m 🤩