Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do you believe there is such a thing as "saving knowledge"?

Is this an attempt to justify gnostic belief?

 

[HeIsHere]

That's basically the gnostic position. Knowledge saves, faith doesn't.

Yes, as well "Gnostics' believes in a divine illumination, inner light bestowed which provided the knowledge, if I remember correctly.

There is 'light" "illumination" motif in Gnosticism that is why one has to be very careful, probably why it infiltrated Christianity so easily, seems like Eastern Orthodox very much built on this divine illumination called Theosis.

Oh those Greeks..

 

[Rufus]

That's including ability in free will. i don't make that distinction. So basically everyone here is wrangling over something that hasn't been defined yet in a way we can all agree on.

Not true! I defined "freewill" in terms of libertarianism, for FWers believe they have absolute and unrestricted power to make moral/spiritual choices that are opposed to man's immutable evil nature. FWers attribute a power to man that even God Almighty himself doesn't have, since He cannot make choices that are contrary to his good, holy, righteous nature.

 

[Blue155]

@LifelongLearner, I’d like a wife, but don’t think it’s meant for me to have one.

 

[Rufus]

Is this an attempt to justify gnostic belief?

It's an honest question based on several biblical passages. Here's but one to contemplate:

Ex 5:1-2
5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the desert.'"

2 Pharaoh said, "Who is the LORD, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the LORD and I will not let Israel go."
NIV

Do you think things would have turned out a lot differently for Pharaoh and all the other Egyptians if they had actually known the Lord and humbly obeyed God?

 

[Jordon]

The unregenerated man is defined as darkness itself, a hater of the light, one who refuses to come into the light... of course free willers reject these Biblical truths in favor of their ear tickling doctrine... but Jordon, I do not really understand all this talk of pollination. The natural man is regenerated, raised to life in Christ, after which he can begin to receive and understand the Spiritual things of God which the natural man cannot, another fact free willers love to deny. Is that what you mean? Like the Seed of God's Word taking root in the heart?

pollination can only be an explanation for what would have happend to mans seed had it not sinned.

The first attempt of pollination of mans seed in the garden of eden was done by giving mans seed pollination to accept the light and life.

If they had chosen to accept the light and life our seed would have been pollinated with light and life.

Our seed never accepted his life and instead chose death, which corrupted our seed, but by design our seed only had will to accept life and should of by nature accepted life by God's design and image of us

Like in which way all of other Gods creations live by design naturally do.

But our seed chose not to accept from freedom of thought

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, as well "Gnostics' believes in a divine illumination, inner light bestowed which provided the knowledge, if I remember correctly.

There is 'light" "illumination" motif in Gnosticism that is why one has to be very careful, probably why it infiltrated Christianity so easily, seems like Eastern Orthodox very much built on this divine illumination called Theosis.

Oh those Greeks..

I believe in divine illumination, but I don't believe, as the gnostics do, that knowledge enlightens us to see our (imagined) divine nature. (eg, regeneration before faith).

I believe the spirit of understanding illuminates our whole being, which reveals, not that we ourselves are divine or righteous, but that we are empty vessels whom Christ dwells within through faith, shining forth into the world as we walk in him.

 

[Magenta]

It's what Paul said in Romans 7. The mind desires to do good, but is hindered by the flesh that wants to do evil. Then the light comes that enables a person to see to be able to do the right thing. That's salvation in a nutshell

Of course you leave out all Paul said about the natural man being incapable, and John said straight off in his gospel, darkness does not comprehend the light. The natural man according to Scripture hates the light, refuses to come into the light, is opposed to the Spiritual things of God, is hostile in his mind toward God. That clashes with your theology that has darkness comprehending and making decisions in the flesh Scripture says flesh cannot do. There are none good, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit, but all you free willers and split-tongue talkers say it can. In your theology, Adam ate of the Tree of Life; you claim it is untenable to think otherwise when Scripture says no such thing, and it is actually more reasonable to believe he did not. Scripture also very much connects knowing God to salvation, though you have an obsession with gnosticism and call people things you don't agree with gnostic just because you can, despite it being dishonest. You yourself have claimed you received personal revelatory unique divine experiences of or from God which would make you a gnostic according to how the liars you agree with define it.

 

[Jordon]

@LifelongLearner, I’d like a wife, but don’t think it’s meant for me to have one.

you can have all the wifes you want here m, many here lay down the rules

 

[HeIsHere]

I believe in divine illumination, but I don't believe, as the gnostics do, that knowledge enlightens us to see our (imagined) divine nature. (eg, regeneration before faith).

I believe the spirit of understanding illuminates our whole being, which reveals, not that we ourselves are divine or righteous, but that we are empty vessels whom Christ dwells within through faith, shining forth into the world as we walk in him.

Yes that is why one has to be very aware of how these words are defined and what the person means when they use them.
Gnosticism also has the idea of secret or hidden ... sound familiar?

I find it interesting that Calvin used these types of words...
"secret testimony of the Spirit"
"illumination of the Holy Spirit"

 

[Magenta]

*people and things

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us.

 

[Jordon]

Yes that is why one has to be very aware of how these words are defined and what the person means when they use them.
Gnosticism also has the idea of secret or hidden ... sound familiar?

I find it interesting that Calvin used these types of words...
"secret testimony of the Spirit"
"illumination of the Holy Spirit"

illumination in the Bible

The light will shine in your ways

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

 

[Magenta]

illumination in the Bible

The light will shine in your ways

Now we find out they do not even believe in illumination via the Holy Spirit. It just gets worse and worse...

 

[Magenta]

John 17 verses 2-3 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[Jordon]

They do not believe in illumination via the Holy Spirit. It just gets worse and worse...

Its a sacred vow to in marriage m

 

[Me_Clay]

who says he chooses who not to believe but you on countless occasions.

He chooses who to hand over to the son, his message is all about a personal walk with the father first for everyone.

I'll say it again to, everyone, and you've had that explained to you why and how he does have a relationship with everyone.

Why will you not accept these answers

He can choose what ever he wants, and he does that by knowing your whole life.

He chooses by knowing your state of sorrow from his sorrow for all sinners

Isn't this "Calvinism?"

 

[HeIsHere]

illumination in the Bible

The light will shine in your ways

Yes as long as it is Biblical and not the gnositic version of secret illumination of "poof" that comes to people unaware, just birthed in them like some mystical experience, some divine decree completely separated from the Faith God requires.

There is true illumination and false counterfeit... be careful.

• Psalm 119:105 says, "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path".
• Psalm 119:130 states, "The unfolding of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple".

 

[Jordon]

Yes as long as it is Biblical and not the gnositic version of secret illumination of "poof" that comes to people unaware, just birthed in them like some mystical experience, some divine decree completely separated from the Faith God requires.

There is true illumination and false counterfeit... be careful.

• Psalm 119:105 says, "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path".
• Psalm 119:130 states, "The unfolding of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple".

The word
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community”

Isn't this "Calvinism?"

if you want it to be. It can be.

 

[HeIsHere]

The word
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community”


if you want it to be. It can be.

I am movin on.
Caio