Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

But your friend genez justified sin by saying it's different to evil, and you never reprimanded him m

All you did was encourage him to fight with us more

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3 v 23). There is no one who does not sin (from 1 Kings 8 v 46). No one living is righteous before You (from Psalm 143 v 2). If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1 v 8). Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” (John 8 v 34) And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 19-20). The heart is incurably wicked (Jeremiah 17 v 9). What is evil? Sin is evil. Stop sugar coating it. All men sin, and commit evil in the sight of God. There are none good, no, not one! A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

 

[LifelongLearner]

I've always liked people who can me laugh about my silky behaviour m i then realise how silly I've been.
I feel it's a gift to accept people by there mistakes as much as it to accept them for there goodness

I always do get on well with this manna

Ditto friend, lovely surprises are the spice of life. A perceived enemy turning out to be a friend is something to cherish too.

 

[Jordon]

2 Corinthians 3:14-16

“But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

1. “…anyone turns to the Lord…” (by faith)
2. “…the veil is taken away.

Order once again clearly laid out... faith first then the veil is taken away.

And this is actually How Gods enabling grace works m

It works inside there conscience pricking there conscience to make the right choice.

The person is not evaluated for his merit on there own choice there evaluated on his choice

 

[Jordon]

The lord counted his belief as righteousness to them m

 

[Jordon]

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3 v 23). There is no one who does not sin (from 1 Kings 8 v 46). No one living is righteous before You (from Psalm 143 v 2). If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1 v 8). Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” (John 8 v 34) And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 19-20). The heart is incurably wicked (Jeremiah 17 v 9). What is evil? Sin is evil. Stop sugar coating it. All men sin, and commit evil in the sight of God. There are none good, no, not one! A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

sin referred to as darkness, here doesn't get any plainer than that m, sin is evil in the lords eyes and actually stopped the seed of man from being pollinated.

 

[cv5]

I'll start with this line. Even for this purpose have i raised thee up that my name might be declared though all the land. All those kings getting smashed on in the old testament is a form of evangelism. In fact I bet more Christianity was evangelized at the end of a sword than any other way. Judgment and war is one way the word is spread. Its not how it is thought of today but that is how alot of it spread. That being said I do belive Jericho was judgment. Evangelism was a byproduct of what happened there.

"Evangelism was a byproduct of what happened there."

Actually.....the other way around. Salvation MUST and ALWAYS comes before judgement in God's economy.

Think Sodom and innumerable other examples.

But yes, judgement definitely was also planned for Jericho incidentally and proceeded subsequent to the salvation of all those who saw and heard and RECEIVED God's warnings and witnesses and BELIEVED them.

So it is today.....

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Choice and will are not the same, we can choose something but can be prevented from enacting it by the will of others. Also being able to prevent them enacting their will at times.

We still have will but not free will in our fallen state.

That's including ability in free will. i don't make that distinction. So basically everyone here is wrangling over something that hasn't been defined yet in a way we can all agree on.

 

[Rufus]

I already explained why the lost want to refuse him.
It is not because of sin.
It is because of evil being their preference.
I explained how it works as God applies grace to suppress the sin nature, as to make the soul able to make a choice.

Sin and evil.
There is a difference.
Jesus died for our sins.
Jesus did not die for evil.

Satan tempts to sin.
Satan himself is evil.
Not simply a sinner.

Evil finds God repulsive.
Sin only cuts one off from God.

Why are we getting stuck and bogged down and limited to the maternity ward of Christianity?

There is so much more to learn and know.
Tremendous things to learn and to know.

Because Evil wants to keep Christians unable to mature.
Evil knows how to appeal to the ego and flesh of weak believers
who find their strength operational when being that way.

Jesus warned!
There are believers who refuse to lose their life.

​

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, ​

.......... but whoever loses their life for me will find it." Matthew 16:25​

​

See to it that no one falls short of God’s grace; that no root of resentment springs up ​

and causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; Hebrews 12:15​

That is what is being found here in spades!
........

So Satan is evil just as his offspring (seed) are, right? Man isn't "merely" a sinner either. He is inherently evil, devoid of any spiritual soundness in him (Isa 1:5-6)!

 

[Magenta]

Yes, we praise God and are told we are boasting in self while they claim they overcame the world with
their incurably wicked heart which needs replacing and then they were born again, the opposite of what
Scripture actually says... they boast in the flesh but are blind to it, since flesh cannot do what Scripture
asserts it cannot, but that does not stop them from saying it can and does. Really becomes more obvious how
plainly spoken Bible verses are said to be exegesis eisegesis while they continually reject what is explicitly
articulated to insert their preference instead, and parallel verses are said to be taken out of context LOL.
The parallel verses have everything to do with the subject matter of who the natural man is and what
he is capable of but they are going to deny it, and keep telling us Scripture does not say what it does.

fixed... auto-correct disagrees with eisegesis...

 

[Magenta]

sin referred to as darkness, here doesn't get any plainer than that m, sin is evil
in the lords eyes and actually stopped the seed of man from being pollinated.

The unregenerated man is defined as darkness itself, a hater of the light, one who refuses to come into the light... of course free willers reject these Biblical truths in favor of their ear tickling doctrine... but Jordon, I do not really understand all this talk of pollination. The natural man is regenerated, raised to life in Christ, after which he can begin to receive and understand the Spiritual things of God which the natural man cannot, another fact free willers love to deny. Is that what you mean? Like the Seed of God's Word taking root in the heart?

 

[HeIsHere]

The logic fail of regeneration precedes faith>>>>

If regeneration precedes faith, then this would make faith unnecessary since the person would already be saved.
(Of course this is denied because they know it poses a problem, "Reformed" will argue regeneration is not sanctifying which makes no sense since scripture makes clear that it occurs instantly at salvation
1 Peter 1:1-25
James 1:1-27

If a person is regenerated, then he is born of God, a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life.
(That is what scripture tells).

If you are a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life, then you are already saved.
(That is what scripture tells).

So what need is there for faith?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Once you choose the right thing to do, you then receive the ability to choose the right thing to do.

Too funny. Because you present a very clear case of putting the cart before the horse.

It's what Paul said in Romans 7. The mind desires to do good, but is hindered by the flesh that wants to do evil. Then the light comes that enables a person to see to be able to do the right thing. That's salvation in a nutshell

 

[Rufus]

I know this is pointless.. such much protection of this pet doctrine.

Just on the surface these verses do not have the word "regeneration" in them.

The word "palingenesia" (regeneration) is not in those verses.

No kidding, Mz. Dick Tracy. But the fact remains that the Holy Spirit actively works in people's hearts, minds and souls long before they are born again (see my series on Cornelius!). And according to the two passages I cited, the Spirit's efficacious sanctifying work produces faith! In classic Arminianism or Pelagianism, the Spirit's work of Sanctification doesn't begin until after a person is born again. First, a person my believe and repent which results in Justification...then the Sanctification process begins.

 

[Rufus]

The logic fail of regeneration precedes faith>>>>

If regeneration precedes faith, then this would make faith unnecessary since the person would already be saved.
(Of course this is denied because they know it poses a problem, "Reformed" will argue regeneration is not sanctifying which makes no sense since scripture makes clear that it occurs instantly at salvation
1 Peter 1:1-25
James 1:1-27

If a person is regenerated, then he is born of God, a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life.
(That is what scripture tells).

If you are a member of God’s family and a possessor of eternal life, then you are already saved.
(That is what scripture tells).

So what need is there for faith?

One becomes conscious/aware of his Faith at the point of the New Birth -- not before. Doesn't a newborn infant become aware of the world around him after he's born? Likewise, believers become aware of God and his grace and their desperate need for both at the point of the New Birth. So...while a new believer was actually a member of God's family and a possessor of eternal life in eternity by divine decree, he only becomes conscious of his transformed heart and his relationship with his Creator/Redeemer when he's born from above in time and space.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So what need is there for faith?

That's basically the gnostic position. Knowledge saves, faith doesn't.

 

[LifelongLearner]

That's including ability in free will. i don't make that distinction. So basically everyone here is wrangling over something that hasn't been defined yet in a way we can all agree on.

You know what, don't think i have any opinions i'd die on a hill for, if a better theory comes along, i change my mind willingly. It's unhealthy, even harmful, clinging to a defunct opinion or theory and no, i don't view my newish belief in God as either of them.
The wrangling saddens me, i was a new Christian and member here when i posted this thread, definitely a mistake i won't repeat.
Lesson learned!

 

[Rufus]

But, not to compromise the truth so we can all get along.....

Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. ​

From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, ​

three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against ​

son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against ​

mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against ​

mother-in-law.”​

​

Luke 12:51-53​

Wherever the Word is presented? Be it sound, or false? There is going to opposition and conflict.
Friction will be unavoidable unless you stick with those who you agree with if you want peace...
Or, stick with those who are like-minded to boast over others with.

Some here are being exposed for being snobs. Too good for the FW'ers.

Actually "some here" believe our God is far too good for the god you FWers worship, namely SELF!

 

[HeIsHere]

That's including ability in free will. i don't make that distinction. So basically everyone here is wrangling over something that hasn't been defined yet in a way we can all agree on.

It cannot happen because "reformed" rely heavily on the notion a person is born unable to respond positively and freely to the power and truth of Good News and scripture.

Any allowance of freedom wrecks their house of cards that is why they harp on it incessantly
....... double blind, unable to hear, wicked heart, bondage, slave, corpse like dead, Satan, sin immeasurable, evil and more evil.

It is all so very out of context and people can clump verses together all they want thinking they are making a case, as if that is how hermeneutics works and yet none of those verses affirm that man was born unable to respond positively to the Good News.

They are reduced to mining for scripture and cherry picking verses.

 

[Rufus]

That's basically the gnostic position. Knowledge saves, faith doesn't.

Do you believe there is such a thing as "saving knowledge"?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

....... double blind, unable to hear, wicked heart, bondage, slave, corpse like dead, Satan, sin immeasurable, evil and more evil.

Babies that would make Hilter look like a saint