Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Magenta said:
Total depravity does not mean man is utterly incapable of doing any good.
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The Canons of Dort state the doctrine of total depravity clearly in Head 3, Article 3 and Article 4, which declare:

"Therefore, all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin. Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform."

Additionally, a summary from Pilgrim Covenant Church on the Canons of Dort explains total depravity as meaning that everything a natural man does, even what appears good to humans, is sinful in God's sight and that the natural man is unable "to do, say, or think anything truly good" apart from God's grace. It emphasizes man's total inability to perform any saving good works by himself.


Source:
https://pilgrim-covenant.com/what-w...documents/the-canons-of-dort/total-depravity/


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Please keep in mind I believe in Partial Depravity.
I also believe man cannot do good in God's eyes because man is tainted by sin.
The only way one can do good is by abiding in God or Christ when you allow His good works to move through you.



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Bible_Highlighter said:
The Canons of Dort state the doctrine of total depravity clearly in Head 3, Article 3 and Article 4, which declare:

"Therefore, all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin. Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform."

Additionally, a summary from Pilgrim Covenant Church on the Canons of Dort explains total depravity as meaning that everything a natural man does, even what appears good to humans, is sinful in God's sight and that the natural man is unable "to do, say, or think anything truly good" apart from God's grace. It emphasizes man's total inability to perform any saving good works by himself.

Source:
https://pilgrim-covenant.com/what-w...documents/the-canons-of-dort/total-depravity/
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Unfit for any saving good. Hmmm. Yes. Not what you originally said. You lied.

claiming this verse teaches that mankind is utterly incapable of doing good
 
Magenta said:
Looks like you willfully ignored this, you were so busy pontificating in your long-winded style.

allhavesinned.png

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. Mark ch. 10 verse 18 and Luke ch. 18 verse 19 “There is only One who is good.” Matthew ch. 19 verse 17b. There is no one who does good. fr Psalm ch. 14. There is no one righteous, not even one. Romans ch. 3 verse 10. They are corrupt; their ways are vile. There is no one who does good. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. fr Psalm ch. 53 verses 1-3. Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Ecclesiastes ch. 7 verse 20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
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Uh, Jesus is not a white European with hippy hair.
Jesus was Jewish and he would have looked like he was more from the Middle East.
We actually do not know what He looked like.
Even the apostles said they no longer regard Him after the flesh.
Such images of Jesus are false idols.



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Magenta said:
Unfit for any saving good. Hmmm. Yes. Not what you originally said. You lied.

claiming this verse teaches that mankind is utterly incapable of doing good
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No lying. It means the same thing. A Calvinist site interpreted this as an unbeliever can do no good.





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Bible_Highlighter said:
Please keep in mind I believe in Partial Depravity.
I also believe man cannot do good in God's eyes because man is tainted by sin.
The only way one can do good is by abiding in God or Christ when you allow His good works to move through you.
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Your error is thinking the natural man can do that. He cannot, which is explicitly stated in Scripture, which you do not believe.

You are even contradicting yourself now. First you say God forces these things on you, now you are saying we allow it.

As if you think man has the power to stop God doing that which He desires.

John6-44-1-Corinthians2-14-Romans8-7-8.png

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
 
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Bible_Highlighter said:
Uh, Jesus is not a white European with hippy hair.
Jesus was Jewish and he would have looked like he was more from the Middle East.
We actually do not know what He looked like.
Even the apostles said they no longer regard Him after the flesh.
Such images of Jesus are false idols.
.
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Why do you assume it is Jesus? Gosh. Grow up.
 
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Magenta said:
Your error is thinking the natural man can do that. He cannot, which is explicitly stated in Scripture, which you do not believe.

John6-44-1-Corinthians2-14-Romans8-7-8.png

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8
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There you go again with the false slander.
I said repeatedly that a believer can only do good by God doing the good work through them.




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Magenta said:
Your obsession with Calvinism is unhealthy.
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I only expose Calvinism every now and then.
But currently, exposing Calvinism actually gives me strength with the truth of God's word.
I praise the Lord my God for that.
I love the Word of God. Both the Living Word, and the Communicated Word.




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Bible_Highlighter said:
I said repeatedly that a believer can only do good by God doing the good work through them.
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Nope. You believe the natural man can receive what Scripture says he cannot. That is not slander. It is what you believe.

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The gospel is foolishness to the natural man, since he can neither accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. It is impossible for his incurably wicked heart to grow the seed of God’s Word into the good fruit of faith while he is captive to the will of the devil. Along with the rest of the world who does not know God, he is blinded to the truth and under the power and influence of Satan, rendered incapable of submitting to or obeying God, with Whom he is inherently hostile toward in his mind, for he craves what is contrary to the Spirit. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to come into the light because he is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, and his deeds are evil.
 
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Magenta said:
Nope. You believe the natural man can receive what Scripture says he cannot. That is not slander. It is what you believe.

gospelfoolishness.png

The gospel is foolishness to the natural man, since he can neither accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. It is impossible for his incurably wicked heart to grow the seed of God’s Word into the good fruit of faith while he is captive to the will of the devil. Along with the rest of the world who does not know God, he is blinded to the truth and under the power and influence of Satan, rendered incapable of submitting to or obeying God, with Whom he is inherently hostile toward in his mind, for he craves what is contrary to the Spirit. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to come into the light because he is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, and his deeds are evil.
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Thank you for the repeat of the false slander.
I will rejoice in Jesus Christ for that (Matthew 5:11 KJV).

It is time for me to turn in.
Tchau, tchau.



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Bible_Highlighter said:
Thank you for the repeat of the false slander.
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It is not slander, mister liar. You believe a person accepts the spiritual things of God as a natural man, and
Scripture says he cannot. If you love the communicated Word of God then you should start believing it.
You make the same error many do in ascribing to the natural man what only the spiritual man can do.
 
You probably also say things like everyone hears, which contradicts what Jesus said. It's a typical thing for people
like you to claim, since you want to believe everyone hears, regardless of what the Bible actually says.

from1-Corinthians1-18-21.png

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Since the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. from 1 Corinthians 1 verses 18-21 The natural man does not choose to believe that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, for it is foolishness to him.
 
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Bible_Highlighter said:
Thank you for the repeat of the false slander.
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If it is slander then you believe a person is regenerated before they can accept the spiritual things of God and believe.

You really ought to make up your mind, because any way I look at it you are lying about something.

So rejoice in your fake persecution all you like. It suits your phony self.

And start believing what the Bible says instead of what you want it to say.

Bible_Highlighter said:
Remember, we have to accept the whole Bible and not just parts that we think we like to hear or to see from our own slanted view.
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Cameron143 said:
I gave you a specific set of beliefs. If someone believes in salvation that the Spirit changes and opens the heart, is their belief gnostic or not?
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And I gave you a list to compare your beliefs with. You asked what I think gnostic means, and I explained. Do with it what you will.

As for your manipulative questions-game, in which you try to justify your beliefs and gain pre-eminence in discussions via carefully framed questions from an assumed position of superior spiritual enlightenment, that you are unable to explain in simple terms because it is a higher knowledge hidden from all but a select few, thus the veiled questions game, I'm done playing. After this interaction with you in which you immediately tried to find a way to justify gnostic beliefs, I am fully convinced that you are gnostic to the core.
 
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Cameron143 said:
Why would they need a new heart if they can obey the command to believe and believe on their own?
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Remember, People are only MOSTLY dead.
So they don't really need a new heart.

Their fleshly heart they were born with has juuuust enough life to choose Jesus!


 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
And I gave you a list to compare your beliefs with. You asked what I think gnostic means, and I explained. Do with it what you will.

As for your manipulative questions-game, in which you try to justify your beliefs and gain pre-eminence in discussions via carefully framed questions from an assumed position of superior spiritual enlightenment, that you are unable to explain in simple terms because it is a higher knowledge hidden from all but a select few, thus the veiled questions game, I'm done playing. After this interaction with you in which you immediately tried to find a way to justify gnostic beliefs, I am fully convinced that you are gnostic to the core.
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So God opening someone's understanding and opening their hearts is not gnosticism, which I believe He does in salvation, but that equates to me being gnostic. You contradict yourself.

My questions weren't veiled. They were a logical progression of what gnosis means and includes, to an application from scripture of what it looks like. I don't claim hidden knowledge. I claim that God unveils truth and changes the hearts of those He saves...all of which you said was not gnosis. So on what basis do you make the claim that I am gnostic?
 
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