Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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1 Corinthians 1 v 20-25 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.
 
@OLDBUTNEW

An Explanation of Romans 9:
(The Non-Calvinistic Version):

Romans chapters 9 to 11 deal specifically with the nation of Israel and God’s dealings with them as His chosen people. Romans 9 is not isolated from the rest of the book of Romans.
The whole point of Romans 9 was written with the Jew in mind in how they were trying to earn salvation by “Works Alone Salvationism” (without God's grace through Jesus Christ), and how they found favor with God based on their nationality (in that they were God's people, Israel).

Romans 9:6-8 is a refutation of the Israelites’ false belief of salvific nationalism.
Romans 9:9-16 is a refutation of the Israelites’ false belief of “Works Alone Salvationism” (without Jesus and His grace), but salvation is by him who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus (Compare Romans 9:11 with Romans 10:13).
Romans 9:17-18 sets up the dilemma for the Israelite in being saved by God's grace and mercy on His terms. Pharaoh was hardened on God's terms in that we know that a person's heart is hardened by their own sin. For a believer who sins and hardens their heart, they can then fall into unbelief and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-15). Sin is the breaking of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). The Israelite was hardening their heart against God on account of their sin or disobedience to the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23).

Because of Israel’s unbelief in rejecting their Messiah, Scripture tells us in Romans 11:25 that “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” It was Israel’s unbelief in the Messiah as to why they were broken off (Romans 11:20).

Romans 9:19 is the Israelite complaining about how God can find fault because they believe they are doing God's will as an Israelite.
Romans 9:20 is a voice answering the Israelite and criticizing him. The voice asks a question from the Israelite’s perspective, “Why have you made me this way [i.e., as an Israelite, a keeper of the Law]?”

When reading Romans 9:21-23, we have to keep in mind that God elects based on His foreknowledge (His future foreknowledge of what they are going to do) (1 Peter 1:1-2). The language present in this passage is reminiscent of Jeremiah 18 about how God will form the clay based upon how a nation does not hear His voice; He will turn back on the good He would do unto them. God warns Jerusalem and Judah that He frames evil against them unless they repent. Meaning, based on what we do, a person will fall into one of two categories, the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned (i.e., the vessels of wrath and mercy). God will render to every man according to his deeds (See: Romans 2:6).

Romans 9:30-32 clarifies (recaps) what was being said:

“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.” (Romans 9:30-32).

“...rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).

So Romans 9 is really not talking about Calvinistic Unconditional Election.
Even the word “call” used in Romans 9 in reference to God calling does not prove that God is forcing anything upon a person. For many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Please read this chapter for yourself in prayer.






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Do you even know what total depravity is?
Many don't. They have a knee jerk reaction to the words and revolt. Pelagian heretics especially... which he is.

Pelagianheretics.png

Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
 
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@OLDBUTNEW

An Explanation of Romans 9:
(The Non-Calvinistic Version):

Romans chapters 9 to 11 deal specifically with the nation of Israel and God’s dealings with them as His chosen people. Romans 9 is not isolated from the rest of the book of Romans.
The whole point of Romans 9 was written with the Jew in mind in how they were trying to earn salvation by “Works Alone Salvationism” (without God's grace through Jesus Christ), and how they found favor with God based on their nationality (in that they were God's people, Israel).

Romans 9:6-8 is a refutation of the Israelites’ false belief of salvific nationalism.
Romans 9:9-16 is a refutation of the Israelites’ false belief of “Works Alone Salvationism” (without Jesus and His grace), but salvation is by him who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus (Compare Romans 9:11 with Romans 10:13).
Romans 9:17-18 sets up the dilemma for the Israelite in being saved by God's grace and mercy on His terms. Pharaoh was hardened on God's terms in that we know that a person's heart is hardened by their own sin. For a believer who sins and hardens their heart, they can then fall into unbelief and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-15). Sin is the breaking of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). The Israelite was hardening their heart against God on account of their sin or disobedience to the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23).

Because of Israel’s unbelief in rejecting their Messiah, Scripture tells us in Romans 11:25 that “blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” It was Israel’s unbelief in the Messiah as to why they were broken off (Romans 11:20).

Romans 9:19 is the Israelite complaining about how God can find fault because they believe they are doing God's will as an Israelite.
Romans 9:20 is a voice answering the Israelite and criticizing him. The voice asks a question from the Israelite’s perspective, “Why have you made me this way [i.e., as an Israelite, a keeper of the Law]?”

When reading Romans 9:21-23, we have to keep in mind that God elects based on His foreknowledge (His future foreknowledge of what they are going to do) (1 Peter 1:1-2). The language present in this passage is reminiscent of Jeremiah 18 about how God will form the clay based upon how a nation does not hear His voice; He will turn back on the good He would do unto them. God warns Jerusalem and Judah that He frames evil against them unless they repent. Meaning, based on what we do, a person will fall into one of two categories, the resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned (i.e., the vessels of wrath and mercy). God will render to every man according to his deeds (See: Romans 2:6).

Romans 9:30-32 clarifies (recaps) what was being said:

“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.” (Romans 9:30-32).

“...rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).

So Romans 9 is really not talking about Calvinistic Unconditional Election.
Even the word “call” used in Romans 9 in reference to God calling does not prove that God is forcing anything upon a person. For many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Please read this chapter for yourself in prayer.






....

No, thanks all the same, but I really don't have the time or energy for that.
 
@OLDBUTNEW

I will make this more simple for you.

Does 2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV sound like Calvinism?

2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

So if you read this verse, ask yourself: Why are those who perish facing destruction or perishing?

Is it because:

A. They received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved?

or:

B. They were not Elected by God?

What does the verse say?



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What does the verse say?
It says they did not receive something that is necessary for salvation.

Who gives that which is necessary? Here's a clue for you (more than one, actually):

from-John14-17etc.png

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
 
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Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
 
@OLDBUTNEW

Here is another simple one.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV):
“And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.”

Now, lets at the context. Jonah entered Nineveh proclaiming God’s wrath: “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown” (Jonah 3:4 KJV). The people were warned of certain destruction. But instead of being destroyed, the Ninevites humbled themselves, fasted, and turned from their evil ways. Scripture says plainly that God turned back from the judgment He was going to bring upon them because of what they did, and not based upon some sort of Unconditional Election. This shows that God’s mercy was conditional on their repentance, not on a hidden decree.

Here is another one.

Psalms 7:11 (KJV):
“God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.”

This makes no sense under the Calvinistic system. If men are wicked simply because they were Non-Elect or because God pre-ordained them to damnation, why would God be angry at them? The true God of Scripture is angry with the wicked because they refuse His goodness and resist His will of their own free choice. They could have chosen the truth but instead turned away.

By contrast, the Calvinistic god makes God out to be like the Incredible Hulk from Marvel comics or as seen in the Avengers movies, flying into blind fury and smashing without reason. But why cannot the god of Calvinism simply elect men to salvation and cause them to do good? Why the anger, if He is the One who unconditionally decreed their damnation? Is this truly the sovereignty of the God of the Bible? Or is it a distortion of His revealed character?




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It says they did not receive something that is necessary for salvation.

Who gives that which is necessary? Here's a clue for you (more than one, actually):

from-John14-17etc.png

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us.

You are missing it. They received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.
It actually says MIGHT be saved. There is no MIGHT be saved in Calvinism.



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Despite not being a Calvinist even I know you are lying here.

Man is held responsible by God. He is without excuse. You are the one who does not believe what the Bible says.

Sorry, no lies here.
I am just telling the truth of the Scriptures.
And you are not dealing with all the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:10.


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Sorry, no lies here.
I am just telling the truth of the Scriptures.
And you are not dealing with all the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:10.
You are not giving me any verses that articulate the free will of the natural man
to choose to believe that which is nonsense to him and to which he is opposed.


Of course I know none exist, which lays to waste your claim that your beliefs are based on the Bible.

Your belief that the natural man can do what Scripture plainly says he can not is pure fantasy.

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The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!
 
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Romans 7 v 14, John 8 v 34, Jeremiah 13 v 23, Romans 3 v 10 ~ We know that the law is spiritual; but
I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.” Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Neither are you able to do good - you who are accustomed to doing evil. There is no one righteous, not even one.
 
@Bible_Highlighter : Yes, we're all told to preach the Word, but then we should all know when to stop!

On what condition are we told to stop preaching the Word?
Is it on your say so?
Surely, I believe there is a time and a place for everything.
We should make time to pray, love our neighbor, the brethren, and more.
But is this the reason? Or is it because you don't want to deal with the verses I presented?
Remember, we have to accept the whole Bible and not just parts that we think we like to hear or to see from our own slanted view.



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