Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

finally where getting somewhere I feel sorry for you I really do, you've said many times something desiring the best is equipping you

So I said well sin is desiring to control me would sin be equipping me as well. It was said to you to open your eyes to something.

Because not only is sin desiring to have me but so does God's enemy.


So now moving on

you recognise you can be controlled by a bad spirit, then, then you say i must be being controlled by the wrong spirit,

Does this mean you Can be controlled by the right spirit ?

Or is it only a wrong spirit can control you

The right spirit can only control us to the extent we have matured in sound doctrinal teaching. That is the problem we face.

Why is that so?

Isaiah 55:8​

​

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,​

Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.​

For there are truths in the Bible that will at times contradict our sense of human decency according to the human norms we have culturally been engrafted into since birth.

These truths are there to be learned. And, when shown by a qualified teacher to see?
You will know that you would have not thought something to be the case,
as we had been going along with the well accepted norms of some group, or our culture.

And, here's the rub and the reason for the many conflicts we find today.

​

Proverbs 14:12​

​

There is a way that seems right to a man,​

But its end is the way of death.​

We will think we are very right, and will have others agreeing with us to confirm our conviction.
But, it is a death trap, spiritually speaking.

There is only one thing that will make us free from the realm of Satan's control over mankind.
Accurately taught sound doctrine = Truth.

Satan's thinking will seem right to a man, even at times noble.
Its Truth that may even seem like a rude rebuke when we first encounter it.

Here is an example of what I speak...

Matthew 16:20-23​

​

Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.​

​

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer ​

many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, ​

for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”​

Peter was being brave by human standards. So noble and kind towards the Lord. Was he not?
Many would have thought God would have been pleased with such a thought towards the Lord.

That was only one example.

We get caught up in so many things we assume has to be right. People around us agree!
Yet, would be shown to be wrong if held up into the light of what Scripture will actually teach us.

Sloppy thinking and assumption causes people to emote, and organize, and to form denominations.

God will provide for us accurate teaching, but only a few that find it.
Taught by someone whom God chose and prepared for the job.

That, dear sir.
Is the crux of the conflict we in the body of Christ find ourselves in.

And, telling you that does not solve anything.

It only exposes the problem.

In Christ.....

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Part of the training, "do this too often"

How to Teach and Preach Calvinism
Desiring God, John Piper

One of many such website, tell me this isn't cultic...

Interpretation: Accuse naysayers of using labels in order to divert attention away from what Calvinism teaches and onto Calvinist interpretations of scripture disguised as "just the text". Practice new ways of rearranging words so you can get scripture to say what it doesn't say

9. Avoid theological jargon that is not in the text. The word "Calvinism" is probably not helpful. "Doctrines of grace" may not do it either. Just stick with what is there in the text, or come up with some new striking phrases that will cause the people to wonder and be excited.

 

[Jordon]

Nonsense. Besides, you FWers have the same problem going the other way. The unregenerate heart cannot choose to obey God or his gospel; for the wicked neither love the Lord nor can they shun evil.

I've shown him the truth about how Calvinism really is but he much rather dogmatise every single person that uses it than the one who correctly respect the works of John Calvin.

He's just another one of those people happy to speak ill of the dead in order to prove himself right.

It's called free will of the flesh in its finest hour

 

[Genez]

Looks like you're in bondage to your carnal will and can't stop posting to Cam to get out of your hell. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

You are talking from inside a helmet that covers your entire head and face.
All you can hear is yourself.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

yep a person can't rebell against something that hasn't been active in the heart.
Rebellion is an internal state, get it ?

No, your not understanding Psalm 107. They cried out unto God and He delivered them.
It was not God who decided to regenerate their heart at random that caused their deliverance based on no reason.
That is what is silly about Calvinism.

Let me challenge you with another Psalm.

Psalm 7:11
"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

Okay. So if God is angry with the wicked every day, and God can simply snap His fingers and make them one of the elect or save them against their will based on no conditions within them, then why doesn’t He just alter their will and save them so that He can stop being angry every day with them for being wicked?

Calvinism is like a master who kicks his dog like a football because the dog poops on his white carpets, even though the dog has an uncontrollable problem because it is sick.

Because in Calvinism, most people suffer for eternity in flames for something they had no real control over.
They could not help but sin as their only choice and God just punishes them anyways because He wants to do that.
This is just evil and wrong on many levels.
It would be creating life just for the purpose of endlessly torturing it.

I still don't see an answer from you about the truth I posted you about John Calvin either

You are going to have to give me a post number.




....

 

[Genez]

When the doctrine reveals its inconsistency, one tactic is to resort to gaslighting.

It is not so much a tactic.
As it's an instinct and result of being controlled by the flesh.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Part of the training, "do this too often"

How to Teach and Preach Calvinism
Desiring God, John Piper

One of many such website, tell me this isn't cultic...

Interpretation: When naysayers accuse Calvin of being a murderer, come to his defense by saying that after he betrayed his friend Servetus to the authorities to be killed, he tried to get Servetus beheaded rather than burned alive at the stake. This will show his loving, compassionate heart.

10. Tell stories and experiences from biography and from the lives of living saints that illustrate their dependence on the sovereignty of God. Especially stories related to missions and evangelism and holiness of life.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Nonsense.

So you claim with no answer.
Granted, I am not expecting a real answer of any kind of substance.
This is the general "no substantive reply comments" I have seen from Calvinists many times before.
Unless you can explain HOW it is a choice, your quip remark does not have any real substance.
Thus, it doesn't really mean anything.
A choice is when you choose between options A, and B.
That idea simply does not exist in Calvinism.

Besides, you FWers have the same problem going the other way.

This again is another comment without any substance.
You are going to have to explain WHY.

The unregenerate heart cannot choose to obey God or his gospel; for the wicked neither love the Lord nor can they shun evil.

That is where Prevenient Grace comes in. Granted, I prefer to call this a Temporary Enablement or Enlightenment that frees the will so that they can either believe the gospel or reject it under God's drawing, conviction, and opening of their heart. There is no place in the Bible that teaches a regeneration first (salvation) that is then followed by a belief. We see continually the biblical pattern of they believe and then they are born again and saved.



....

 

[Jordon]

The right spirit can only control us to the extent we have matured in sound doctrinal teaching. That is the problem we face.

Why is that so?

Isaiah 55:8​

​

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,​

Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.​

For there are truths in the Bible that will at times contradict our sense of human decency according to the human norms we have culturally been engrafted into since birth.

These truths are there to be learned. And, when shown by a qualified teacher to see?
You will know that you would have not thought something to be the case,
as we had been going along with the well accepted norms of some group, or our culture.

And, here's the rub and the reason for the many conflicts we find today.

​

Proverbs 14:12​

​

There is a way that seems right to a man,​

But its end is the way of death.​

We will think we are very right, and will have others agreeing with us to confirm our conviction.
But, it is a death trap, spiritually speaking.

There is only one thing that will make us free from the realm of Satan's control over mankind.
Accurately taught sound doctrine = Truth.

Satan's thinking will seem right to a man, even at times noble.
Its Truth that may even seem like a rude rebuke when we first encounter it.

Here is an example of what I speak...

Matthew 16:20-23​

​

Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.​

​

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer ​

many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, ​

for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”​

Peter was being brave by human standards. So noble and kind towards the Lord. Was he not?
Many would have thought God would have been pleased with such a thought towards the Lord.

That was only one example.

We get caught up in so many things we assume has to be right. People around us agree!
Yet, would be shown to be wrong if held up into the light of what Scripture will actually teach us.

Sloppy thinking and assumption causes people to emote, and organize, and to form denominations.

God will provide for us accurate teaching, but only a few that find it.
Taught by someone whom God chose and prepared for the job.

That, dear sir.
Is the crux of the conflict we in the body of Christ find ourselves in.

And, telling you that does not solve anything.

It only exposes the problem.

In Christ.....

no sir your seeing Paul's struggles as contradiction to God's word . That's your problem not mine, so quit with your assumptions, Paul was talking about the ways of his flesh not being the lords ways, and he speaks of the inward groans coming to service from God bringing them to the service inwardly else where

Jesus declared if you have his faith internally you will obey him

 

[Jordon]

No, your not understanding Psalm 107. They cried out unto God and He delivered them.
It was not God who decided to regenerate their heart at random that caused their deliverance based on no reason.
That is what is silly about Calvinism.

Let me challenge you with another Psalm.

Psalm 7:11
"God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day."

Okay. So if God is angry with the wicked every day, and God can simply snap His fingers and make them one of the elect or save them against their will based on no conditions within them, then why doesn’t He just alter their will and save them so that He can stop being angry every day with them for being wicked?

Calvinism is like a master who kicks his dog like a football because the dog poops on his white carpets, even though the dog has an uncontrollable problem because it is sick.

Because in Calvinism, most people suffer for eternity in flames for something they had no real control over.
They could not help but sin as their only choice and God just punishes them anyways because He wants to do that.
This is just evil and wrong on many levels.
It would be creating life just for the purpose of endlessly torturing it.



You are going to have to give me a post number.




....

crying out to the lord is cited as the lord being near for the unsaved.

Rebellion is cited as an internal conflict .

Having little faith is cited as your own faith unable to obey

A book about John Calvin and what he stood for

This book consists mainly of quotations from Calvin’s commentaries and his Institutes of the Christian Religion, which are interspersed with Hill’s own comments. Calvin’s writings are applied to human suffering, including all sorts of pain and distress, serious illness, loss of loved ones or friends, natural disasters such as earthquakes, floods, and forest fires, poverty and hunger, accidents, persecution, and many other such events. Illustrations of suffering are drawn from the life of Calvin himself and other figures of history. Hill also quotes Seneca, Augustine of Hippo, John Milton, Joni Eareckson Tada, and others to throw light on the problem of suffering. Calvin turned particularly to the Psalms and to Job to comfort his congregation and readers. He rightly noted that in Job 32–37 Elihu corrected the view of Job’s three friends that suffering was only punitive. Like Elihu, Calvin dealt with many reasons believers suffer, including, among others, stimulation to prayer, trust in God’s power, teaching patience, encouraging hope, evidence of obedience, leading one to a higher relationship with God, being led to seek God’s help, having pity on others, and preparing for eternal glory.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

crying out to the lord is cited as the lord being near for the unsaved.

Rebellion is cited as an internal conflict .

Having little faith is cited as your own faith unable to obey

A book about John Calvin and what he stood for

This book consists mainly of quotations from Calvin’s commentaries and his Institutes of the Christian Religion, which are interspersed with Hill’s own comments. Calvin’s writings are applied to human suffering, including all sorts of pain and distress, serious illness, loss of loved ones or friends, natural disasters such as earthquakes, floods, and forest fires, poverty and hunger, accidents, persecution, and many other such events. Illustrations of suffering are drawn from the life of Calvin himself and other figures of history. Hill also quotes Seneca, Augustine of Hippo, John Milton, Joni Eareckson Tada, and others to throw light on the problem of suffering. Calvin turned particularly to the Psalms and to Job to comfort his congregation and readers. He rightly noted that in Job 32–37 Elihu corrected the view of Job’s three friends that suffering was only punitive. Like Elihu, Calvin dealt with many reasons believers suffer, including, among others, stimulation to prayer, trust in God’s power, teaching patience, encouraging hope, evidence of obedience, leading one to a higher relationship with God, being led to seek God’s help, having pity on others, and preparing for eternal glory.

Again, the idea of Calvinism does not work in Psalm 107.
There is no abrupt change in their behavior that was unnatural like a forced regeneration.
They cried out unto God and then God delivered them.
It was not they were rebelling against God's Word and all of a sudden they just dropped their torches and pitchforks and just started loving God and their neighbor.

The idea of crying unto God is not needed in Calvinism.
Its all about a forced regeneration (salvation) that leads to a belief.
Crying unto God meets nothing in Calvinism.


Side Note:

Oh, and I would encourage you to stop reading commentaries and just read the Bible and ask God for the understanding, even if you may not like that truth. Sadly, most believers today cannot think on what the Bible says unless a pastor or Bible commentator is talking in their ear. Granted, I am not saying that other believers cannot be helpful at times, but we need no man to teach us ultimately.

1 John 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."




....

 

[HeIsHere]

It is not so much a tactic.
As it's an instinct and result of being controlled by the flesh.

Yes for some, however, considering the research coming out regarding certain type of people who could be diagnosed under the DSM drawn to this system I would say there are some who knowingly gaslight to harm others.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I still have yet to get a word-for-word commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2:10 by any Calvinist here, as well.




....

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

The idea of crying unto God is not needed in Calvinism.
Its all about a forced regeneration (salvation) that leads to a belief.
Crying unto God meets nothing in Calvinism.

....

Meant to say,

"Crying unto God means nothing in Calvinism."



......

 

[Genez]

no sir your seeing Paul's struggles as contradiction to God's word . That's your problem not mine, so quit with your assumptions, Paul was talking about the ways of his flesh not being the lords ways, and he speaks of the inward groans coming to service from God bringing them to the service inwardly else where

Jesus declared if you have his faith internally you will obey him

Faith comes by hearing (perceiving) the Word of God. I.e. Sound doctrinal teachings.

I have no idea how your brain inverted what I said.
Not worth unraveling.
For most likely, you will invert that, too.

You're stuck. (on yourself)

 

[Genez]

Yes for some, however, considering the research coming out regarding certain type of people who could be diagnosed under the DSM drawn to this system I would say there are some who knowingly gaslight to harm others.

They found themselves adept and good at it.
It is a natural ability that they take pride in and has become a source for their self-esteem.

 

[Jordon]

Faith comes by hearing (perceiving) the Word of God. I.e. Sound doctrinal teachings.

I have no idea how your brain inverted what I said.
Not worth unraveling.
For most likely, you will invert that, too.

You're stuck. (on yourself)

yep and once again we see the attitude of why your telling us God's word, because where all. Stupid and going to hell.

 

[Jordon]

They found themselves adept and good at it.
It is a natural ability that they take pride in and has become a source for their self-esteem.

Faith comes for the unsaved thought the active fear of the lord inside of them.

After faith is given it is the lord faith in you that you have.

Not your own

 

[Jordon]

For I have been crucified with Christ and it is not me that lives no more but Christ in me

 

[cv5]

Interpretation: Keep repeating Calvinista talking points ad nauseum, even when scripture clearly refutes calvignostic ideas

2. Don't be strident but gentle. Assume that working these great issues through to conviction may take years and that being in process is OK.

"calvignostic"
Well done!