Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

You have not been explaining that (what I bolded) Cameron, you have been arguing from a place of error.

Did you actually look at the links I gave Cameron? Be honest. Did you look at the right hand margin where the tense, voice, gender, mood etc is shown for each word? Because if you did Cameron you would have seen in both verses Rom.1:21 and Gal.4:9 they use the active voice.

Go round again.

Rom.1:21
1097 [e] γνόντες gnontes having known V-APA-NMP

Gal.4:9
1097 [e] γνόντες gnontes having known V-APA-NMP

There you are, now you don't have to look it up.



Well your point is false because if you look in verse 19 it shows that it is God revealing the truth through the creation. Man does not come to the conclusion by means of his own intellect. The Lord is not revealing He is a personal God at this juncture, but what He does reveal is more than enough for man to "bow down" if they want.

Rom.1:19
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Winner winner chicken dinner.
Unfortunately @Cameron143 goes to bed without dinner for flunking out.

As you can see, the full complement of lexical study aids were provided by you. And were first ignored.....then outright denied

You can't fix intentionally stupid I guess....

 

[Cameron143]

They knew their own version of the Lord, but had no relationship with Him and therefore did not know Him. Much like Paul knew his version of being made righteous through the Law but was very unrighteous.

No. They knew Jesus. They knew Him as God...Lord, Lord. They preached in His name. They did miraculous works, in His name. They were sold out to Jesus. Their whole life was about Jesus. He didn't say otherwise.
What was missing? Jesus never came to them and made them His own. He never knew them.
Galatians 4:9 clearly teaches that there is a knowing that men do of God, and a knowing that God does of men. Men can perform the first knowing; they cannot perform the second knowing. And even if they perform the first, they cannot perform the second. This lies with God alone.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

sorry but your whole post sounds lovely but it reminds me of a power to the people reading i once witnessed in a church whilst on holiday

God equipping the believer to stand strong in faith reminds you of a "power to the people reading"?

God equipping the believe to stand strong in faith does not remind you of what He tells us in His Word ... Eph 4:11-16 ... Eph 6:10-20 ... 2 Tim 3:16-4:2 ?

Does the fruit of self control just equip you on the back seat of the car or does it actually control your soul to not be led by the flesh ?

being led by the Spirit results in fruit of the Spirit being reaped in the life of the believer.

When the believer is drawn away to walk in the flesh, that is failure on the part of the believer ... that is not failure on the part of God.

.

 

[Jordon]

Winner winner chicken dinner.
Unfortunately @Cameron143 goes to bed without dinner for flunking out.

As you can see, the full complement of lexical study aids were provided by you. And were first ignored.....then outright denied

You can't fix intentionally stupid I guess....

well at least Cameron likes to share his intelligence, which is far cry from how you like to insult intelligence, I wouldn't be surprised if you had him down as the village idiot in your superiority.

 

[Jordon]

God equipping the believer to stand strong in faith reminds you of a "power to the people reading"?

God equipping the believe to stand strong in faith does not remind you of what He tells us in His Word ... Eph 4:11-16 ... Eph 6:10-20 ... 2 Tim 3:16-4:2 ?





being led by the Spirit results in fruit of the Spirit being reaped in the life of the believer.

When the believer is drawn away to walk in the flesh, that is failure on the part of the believer ... that is not failure on the part of God.

.

again your making it all sound like it's something you just put in your back pocket

I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”

Who controls you here

And here


Galatians 2:20: "I am crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me

 

[Rufus]

The sin nature doesn't have any desires. It is an impulse that works on the flesh to deceive the mind.

Wow! You're totally ignorant of the scriptures, aren't you? All human beings have desires -- either godly or ungodly! Here's a few passages you can check out if you desire: Mk 4:19; Rom 1:24; 6:12; 8:5; 13:14; Gal 5:24; Eph 2:3; 4:22; Col 3:5; 1Tim 6:9; 2Tim 2:22; 3:6; 4:3; Jas 4:1; 1Pet 1:14; 2:11; 4:2; 2Pet 1:4; 2:18; 3:3; 1Jn 2:17; Jude 16, 18. And there are many more such passages in the OT! It's man's DESIRES that drive his choices!

 

[Genez]

So the pagan, God-hating Gentile nations were more righteous than God's chosen covenant people who received the covenants, the Law, God's presence in his temple, the sacrificial system, etc.? Such a desperate interpretation of yours also minimizes the nature of sin which is deceitfulness at its core. But then again...this is what you FWers do, isn't it? You diminish the self-destructive, addictive power of sin thereby unjustifiably


"Choice" is not the major issue in evangelism. The universal principles that the Reformed focus on when evangelizing is that every single human being needs Christ and it's sinners' moral/spiritual duty to accept the truth of the Gospel. If these two universal truths penetrate into the hearts of a sinner by God's grace, eventually they will cry out to the Lord to save them because they will sense their helpless, hopeless state.

Melchizedek the king of Salem was from a pagan nation.

 

[Genez]

Is this how your vaunted spiritual "giants/teachers" taught you to childishly respond to God's word?

I once met a person who actually acted like you.
People stayed away from him.

 

[sawdust]

In Galatians 4:9, both the active and passive voices are used.

And be honest, did you actually read my post carefully? I may have mistaken voice for tense, but my point was exactly as I stated. In Galatians 4:9, Paul mentions what individuals can do in the first usage of "known", and what God is doing in the second usage of "known". These are 2 different actions with 2 different actors. Individuals can know God without God knowing them...see Matthew 7:21-23. And apart from God knowing an individual, they will hear...depart. Further, while an individual can know God, this is clearly, according to Matthew 7:21-23, insufficient for salvation.

Are you deliberately being deceitful Cameron or just very naive?

The passive voice is used in relation to God knowing us. We are not comparing what God knows with what we know. We are discussing what we know of God in two separate verses. The active voice is used in both. Deal with it.

 

[Jordon]

Are you deliberately being deceitful Cameron or just very naive?

The passive voice is used in relation to God knowing us. We are not comparing what God knows with what we know. We are discussing what we know of God in two separate verses. The active voice is used in both. Deal with it.

well anything imagination is possible when you stuck in doubt and suspicion of people.

Sadly you've been plagued with it

 

[sawdust]

Galatians 4:9 clearly teaches that there is a knowing that men do of God, and a knowing that God does of men. Men can perform the first knowing; they cannot perform the second knowing. And even if they perform the first, they cannot perform the second. This lies with God alone.

Of course they can't perform the second knowing because that is what God knows. You have to be God for that!

But that was not what we were discussing. We were discussing what men know so get on topic please.

 

[Rufus]

The reason is given in the verse. They refused to love the truth, hence never received salvation. It does not say because God refused to regenerate them.

Their lack of godly love (not to be confused with the ungodly kind) implies that God did not put HIS love within their hearts; for if He had they would have loved the truth. No supernatural circumcision of a person's heart means no love for God, and no love for God means no love for his truth, his gospel, his wisdom, his knowledge, etc., etc.

Love is an absolutely vitally important element in every person's salvation; for even faith works through love!

 

[sawdust]

Wow! You're totally ignorant of the scriptures, aren't you? All human beings have desires -- either godly or ungodly! Here's a few passages you can check out if you desire: Mk 4:19; Rom 1:24; 6:12; 8:5; 13:14; Gal 5:24; Eph 2:3; 4:22; Col 3:5; 1Tim 6:9; 2Tim 2:22; 3:6; 4:3; Jas 4:1; 1Pet 1:14; 2:11; 4:2; 2Pet 1:4; 2:18; 3:3; 1Jn 2:17; Jude 16, 18. And there are many more such passages in the OT! It's man's DESIRES that drive his choices!

You are the one who is ignorant. I never said human being don't have desires, I said the sin nature doesn't have desires.

Go back to Kindergarten and learn to read.

 

[sawdust]

Their lack of godly love (not to be confused with the ungodly kind) implies that God did not put HIS love within their hearts; for if He had they would have loved the truth. No supernatural circumcision of a person's heart means no love for God, and no love for God means no love for his truth, his gospel, his wisdom, his knowledge, etc., etc.

Love is an absolutely vitally important element in every person's salvation; for even faith works through love!

So it's God's fault they don't love Him. He failed to love them.

 

[Rufus]

Melchizedek the king of Salem was from a pagan nation.

And so that makes all pagan nations more righteous than Israel?

But even more to your stupid remarks: Salem is likely shorthand for JeruSalem.

 

[Rufus]

You are the one who is ignorant. I never said human being don't have desires, I said the sin nature doesn't have desires.

Go back to Kindergarten and learn to read.

I guess you didn't check out any of those passages, did you? The sin nature certainly produces evil desires within sinners. This is what makes human beings sinners. And what's even worse is that no man has the power to run from himself and what is in his heart and nature.

 

[Rufus]

So it's God's fault they don't love Him. He failed to love them.

That's your carnal conclusion, not mine. It appears that God never intended to circumcise all human hearts so that all human beings would love him. God has mercy on whom He WILLS to have mercy, and He has compassion on those whom He WILLs to have compassion. Did God circumcise Pharaoh's heart? Esau's heart. Yet, circumcision is an unconditional promise to God's covenant people. So, this fact alone explains why God's supernatural, efficacious work of circumcision is not universal in scope.

 

[Cameron143]

Are you deliberately being deceitful Cameron or just very naive?

The passive voice is used in relation to God knowing us. We are not comparing what God knows with what we know. We are discussing what we know of God in two separate verses. The active voice is used in both. Deal with it.

The passive voice concerning God knowing us is what I have been talking about the whole time as juxtaposed to man knowing God. Are you deliberately ignoring this or are you just naive?

 

[Genez]

Are you deliberately being deceitful Cameron or just very naive?

The passive voice is used in relation to God knowing us. We are not comparing what God knows with what we know. We are discussing what we know of God in two separate verses. The active voice is used in both. Deal with it.

He is not looking to learn something.

He is looking for a reaction.

It's an inexpensive hobby for him.

 

[Genez]

And so that makes all pagan nations more righteous than Israel?

It just proves that you are not too bright.

You confuse "clever" for bright.