Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

Yup!!

"double talk"... "slithering"

It sounds right until one digs deeper and then one finds all the "fatalistic determinism" lurking beneath

They use the word "convinced" what they really are saying has God regenerated them so then they are convinced which He also gives them.

looks like his venom became for you unfortunately.

I wonder does helping people with inflictions equate to calling them slithering snakes

Did you forget to be as a wise as a serpent

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

is this the only one ?

What a shame you failed miserably you should of said i can't possibly search the scriptures to show that God allows.you to reject his ways

Romans declares the Gospel is the power to save

Anyway ok go on then, explain why you think God allows you to reject his ways in the scripture you cited

I have more, but this is a big one that none of you have been able to answer with any kind of rational response.
So again, let's talk about this verse if you can.
If not, then you have failed miserably to defend Calvinism in the Scriptures.



....

 

[Jordon]

Beza, Calvin's close successor, played a key role in systematizing and clarifying Reformed doctrines, especially predestination. His strong emphasis on divine sovereignty, election, and particular atonement did influence later Reformed theology and intensified debates with Arminian thinkers—including his own student, Jacob Arminius. Beza is associated with the development of “supralapsarianism” and contributed substantially to the discussions that fueled the five points of Calvinism, but he did not invent the TULIP acronym or system.

The five points of Calvinism were articulated in direct response to the five articles of the Remonstrants (Arminians) in the early 17th century.

The Synod of Dort (1618–1619) formalized the Calvinist response into five “heads of doctrine,” which were later summarized as TULIP, notably after Beza’s time. Theodore Beza died on October 13, 1605, in Geneva, Switzerland. So he was not alive when the Synod of Dort created the TULIP acronym.



....

You just can't let go of your bitter hatred, sadly for you will end up being a mean old sprinkled up prune

 

[HeIsHere]

looks like his venom became for you unfortunately.

I wonder does helping people with inflictions equate to calling them slithering snakes

Did you forget to be as a wise as a serpent

We are talking about the doctrine and the word snake is not in the post.

 

[Genez]

Yes, it is a choice. Once given the new heart

How are they given this new heart?
Unless you know how?
You are just saying words....

 

[Jordon]

I have more, but this is a big one that none of you have been able to answer with any kind of rational response.
So again, let's talk about this verse if you can.
If not, then you have failed miserably to defend Calvinism in the Scriptures.



....

I don't answer God's word. God does

So go on explanation I'm waiting

 

[Genez]

But I'm exceedingly rich in Christ my Lord and Savior -- an ACTUAL savior! I get to share in His inheritance.

And, I don't?

Snob!

 

[Rufus]

Here is where I’m confused by what you are saying. You describe Cameron as believing that God regenerates a person first, and then the person will inevitably believe. If that is the case, then there is no real choice taking place at any point. The decision is already determined by the regeneration.

Calvinists use the word “choice,” but it is not an actual ability to accept or reject the gospel. It is simply the automatic outcome of a nature that God has already changed. That is why I keep saying that Calvinism removes any genuine option to believe or not believe.

So if Cameron teaches that faith only happens after regeneration and cannot be resisted, he is teaching classic Calvinism. If he truly believes a person is still able to go either way even after God’s intervention, then he has departed from Calvinism. Both cannot be true at the same time.

….

Yes, just in the same way the decision to reject the gospel is determined by sinners' unregenerated, evil nature. Don't you know that unregenerated mankind is trapped by its evil desires (Prov 11:6), which is why all men are in desperate need of God's effectual, rescuing power.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

.normal for a disease to spread more disease to, like you

You're such a charming person!

 

[Jordon]

We are talking about the doctrine and the word snake is not in the post.

.so what does slithering mean for your colleague then seeing as he refers to all drinking snake oil

Maybe you can answer for him again eh ?

 

[HeIsHere]

You're such a charming person!

Notice a pattern?

 

[Jordon]

You're such a charming person!

well you are spreading diseases calling people names that are not true of that person is plagiarism

So I'm waiting for your explanation of Thessalonians

 

[Genez]

The Synod of Dort (1618–1619) formalized the Calvinist response into five “heads of doctrine,” which were later summarized as TULIP, notably after Beza’s time. Theodore Beza died on October 13, 1605, in Geneva, Switzerland. So he was not alive when the Synod of Dort created the TULIP acronym.

Wouldn't you say, that Beza laid the groundwork in thinking that led to the need for laying it out simply in the acronym?
That TULIP reflected his thinking? Not so much Calvin's?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

You just can't let go of your bitter hatred, sadly for you will end up being a mean old sprinkled up prune

I only hate false ways or teachings, but I love the individual.
Meaning, I am commanded by God to love everyone (even my enemies).
I actually think Beza can be admired for his work on the Beza 1598 Greek text.
I love the Beza 1598 Greek text a lot because it was the text used primarily by the KJV translators.
It only differs from the KJV by 20 or so translatable differences (which I have catalogued).
I sometimes reference Beza 1598 at Archive.org when I compare it against the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (To see the differences).
Granted, I am not fluent in Greek, but I use AI to translate and confirm things with the Lexicons.
Many of the KJV translators were Puritans (Calvinists) and helped to translate into English the most faithful translation we have today.


....

 

[Genez]

.so what does slithering mean for your colleague then seeing as he refers to all drinking snake oil

Maybe you can answer for him again eh ?

Do they sell Midol in England?

You might want to try some.

 

[HeIsHere]

Wouldn't you say, that Beza laid the groundwork in thinking that led to the need for laying it out simply in the acronym?
That TULIP reflected his thinking? Not so much Calvin's?

Beza used Calvin's ideas and systematized it, because Calvin just rambled mostly but the concepts were there upon which to build the system.

Total Depravity (T)

• Calvin taught that humanity is "utterly helpless" and has no "free will" to choose God due to sin.
• He believed the "natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel".

Unconditional Election (U)

• Calvin's writings state that God chose certain individuals for salvation before creation, "not based on any merit in them, but solely on His will".
• Salvation depends on God's choice, not on human choice, as humanity is naturally disobedient.

Limited Atonement (L)

• Christ's death was intended to "secure their salvation" for the elect, not merely to make salvation "possible for anyone who believes," according to Calvin.
• His work was a "definite atonement for the elect," not a general one for the whole world.

Irresistible Grace (I)

• Calvin taught that God's call to salvation is effective and "cannot be refused by the elect".
• God "regenerates them and grants them the faith to believe," overcoming any resistance.

 

[Magenta]

Bible Summary: Hearing the gospel leads to believing and then comes the sealing of the Spirit.

You seem to assume everyone hears. Jesus said otherwise. This has already been pointed out
to you. You ignore it. Why? Jesus also said His sheep hear and follow Him. Do goats also hear?
In your theology, can hearing happen with no comprehension present but produce the same results?
Jesus said people hear without hearing. I think this applies to you. You hear without comprehension.
I notice this to be true of Pelagian heretics and free willers in quite a few instances with Scripture.
They seem to choose to ignore and not hear what Scripture says because to acknowledge what is
actually explicitly articulated destroys their position. They love their pre-sups too much.

Bible Summary: Believing and receiving Christ happens before becoming a child of God.

The natural man does not/cannot receive the spiritual things of God. This is explicitly articulated and been pointed
out to you already. We are made alive in Christ while we were dead in our sins. Also already pointed out to you.
Jesus came to save the lost, unstop the ears of the deaf, give sight to the blind; the whole world is blinded.
Upon belief one is sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Do you claim Lazarus was given a choice when called?

Bible Summary: The Holy Spirit’s work can be resisted.

I never said it could not be. I myself resisted. C.S. Lewis called himself the most reluctant convert.
Then we have people saying God does not reveal Himself differently from one person to the next
and does not act unilaterally in matters pertaining to salvation and all manner of similar provably
false assertions which fly in the face of what Scripture actually teaches. The natural man resists.
Of course he does. And God knew he would, and acts unilaterally to overcome such and does
personally reveal Himself which varies from person to person.

Bible Summary: Jesus draws all people, not only a select few.

Is being drawn the same as being given by God to Jesus? Because those given do come. No middle
ground of maybe is suggested. Nothing is suggested like, now you have been given to Jesus, you can
choose what you want to do. While obviously being drawn is no guarantee, but being given sounds like
a definite outcome is certain. I see a difference you seem to overlook. And are all called out of the world?
To those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
The unbeliever has no fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom.

“Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
Bible Summary: Those who perish do so because they refuse the saving truth offered to them.
Calvinist Claim: Those who perish have no ability to receive the truth, believe the gospel, repent, or please God in any way until after they are regenerated by the Spirit first.

1 Cor 2:14, yes, possibly and quite probably the number one fave verse of free willers and Pelagian heretics to rewrite, overlook, ignore, say it does not mean what you think, contradict, outright deny etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum. Free willers and Pelagian heretics believe a bad tree can bring forth good fruit despite Jesus saying it was impossible. The stony ground of man's incurably wicked heart is not good soil for bringing forth the good fruit of faith. There are none good, no, not one! Those bad trees will not produce good fruit, either. Jesus said so on all counts. We have also been told by your peers that not everyone is a slave to sin, that only atheists are slaves to sin because they choose to sin (as if nobody else chooses to sin, maybe non-atheist sins are just oppsies and don't count?) It becomes quite preposterous what comes from not believing what Scripture says, to the point where your peers are comfortable rewriting the very words of Jesus Christ Himself. Of course such people also say such things as God acting unilateraly makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will. They float the most vile ideas such as God raping people and having sex with Mary and then claim that is what we believe, because they would rather blaspheme God than admit they were wrong, and they are desperate to discredit our adherence to what Scripture actually really and truly says. Honestly, if you are going to base your beliefs on what the Bible says, then you really ought to start by removing free will from your vocabulary. Otherwise it is clear you do not mean what you say, despite your sincerity.

6. John 20:31 KJV
“These are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
Bible Summary: Believing results in life which shows life does not cause belief.
Calvinist Claim: A person must already have spiritual life before they can believe.

People do not choose to believe what they hear as foolishness. Oh, maybe
you do? Somehow I doubt it. And yet that is the essence of your claim.

7. John 16:8 KJV
“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.”
Bible Summary: The Spirit convicts the world which shows universal enablement prior to salvation.
Calvinist Claim: The Spirit only convicts the elect with saving intent.

Where is it taught that being convicted equates to enablement? Never heard that before. Never heard your
Calvinist claim before either. But your double standard is evident all along. You don't care so I will continue
to call you a Pelagain heretic which is what you are even though you deny it. You deny it just like many
others here who don't like having their very own standards applied to them, or even pointed out to them.

Bible Summary: Believing is what brings salvation which shows salvation does not cause the believing.
Calvinist Claim: A person must be saved or regenerated first in order to believe.

The natural man hears the gospel as foolishness and your claim is he chooses to believe it regardless. My belief is
that only the spiritual man comprehends the truth of what is presented. Scripture says the same. Heretics and free
willers constantly confuse the natural with the spiritual, ascribing to the former what is only possible to the latter.

10. Matthew 23:37 KJV
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together… and ye would not.”
Bible Summary: Jesus genuinely desired to gather them to Himself for salvation, but they refused.
Calvinist Claim: Those who perish refuse because God never willed to save them or enable them to respond.
Context: They shut up the kingdom of heaven against men (Matthew 23:13) and their house is left unto them desolate (Matthew 23:38), proving rejection of salvation was involved.

Yes, we have thousands of years of Biblical history showing man is opposed to God. How many thousands I am
not sure, but it started with Adam, the very first man, who some say was perfect, and yet he sinned and willfully
chose to disobey God. I do not say Adam was perfect, because that is not what God said either. He was good. Now
only God is good, and God's Word says man is evil and incapable of doing good. God's Word says that man is a slave
to sin, a lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself, which is incapable of comprehending the light, and refuses to
come into the light. Adam was of the natural world just as all people are before being born again. God knew he would
choose to dethrone God. Doing good surely would include being obedient to his maker and yet that is now not possible
for the unregenerated of whom it is said they can neither submit to nor obey God, already pointed out to you also but
for some reason you choose to ignore or overlook or pretend does not mean what it says. It also seems you despise
election which is another common failing of Pelagian heretics and free willers. Maybe some day you will come to
believe what the Bible says and to that end I pray God opens your eyes.

 

[Jordon]

Do they sell Midol in England?

You might want to try some.

are you back to imagining gay things again ?

Why is it you imagine these things so much. ?

 

[cv5]

Show me in scripture where God allows you to reject his ways

Eeerrrr.....

Exodus chapters 32, 33 ???
And most of Numbers from chapters 11 onwards....

Oh yes, lest we forget, there is there is recalcitrant Chorazin and Bethsaida....

 

[Magenta]

Another stain on Christianity.

Yes and there are many web sites like the Ligioners which work hard at casting him in the best possible light, is that even possible ....hmm?

We should start condemning you because of your connection to Italians and Roman Catholicism. What a stain on Christianity you are!