Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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From Luke 1 v 46-55 “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior! For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me. Holy is His name. His mercy extends to those who fear Him, from generation to generation. He has performed mighty deeds with His arm; He has scattered those who are proud in the thoughts of their hearts. He has brought down rulers from their thrones, but has exalted the humble. He has filled the hungry with good things, but has sent the rich away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, remembering to be merciful, as He promised to our fathers, to Abraham and his descendants forever.” Mary was not asked; she was informed (see Luke 1 v 26-38).
 
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Cameron143 said:
Both mean to give.
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All you are telling me is you do not understand the difference in the meanings of words, the connotation and the intensity, Paul used the word "charizomai" for a reason.

You should really just admit the verse does not support "saving faith" as a gift individually/uniquely and move on.
 
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From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
 
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Notice that our being saved has nothing to do with anything we have done. It is all due to God's
own purpose and grace... those very things we have been told are "no good reason" by free willers.

I wonder how these free willers feel so at ease to so frequently and easily blaspheme God.
 
HeIsHere said:
All you are telling me is you do not understand the difference in the meanings of words, the connotation and the intensity, Paul used the word "charizomai" for a reason.

You should really just admit the verse does not support "saving faith" as a gift individually/uniquely and move on.
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He used the particular wording because he was speaking about salvation. When speaking of salvation, Paul employs a particular word to stress that the gift is from God and graciously given. It still means given.
What gift of God is not freely given? What duress is God under when He is gracious? The plain meaning of the verse is that suffering, like believing, is given.
 
Rufus said:
So things happen in this life are beyond God's purview -- beyond his control?

What else is God not control besides some "suffering"?
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Will you please address what I said?

Not that imaginary punching bag you keep talking to when you are confronted by something you can not understand.
 
Genez said:
Will you please address what I said?

Not that imaginary punching bag you keep talking to when you are confronted by something you can not understand.
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This is an excellent example of someone reaping what one has sown.

You were right. People can learn things here.
 
Jordon said:
it's not my understanding that's the fault,

It's your inability to stop feeling so hard done by and feeling so sorry for people who are totally depraved that's at fault,

Emotional erratic behaviour is your problem,.
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Get in line behind Rufus, who talks to his imaginary punching bag, as to avoid dealing with that I actually said.
It amounts to a waste of time trying to reason with you as well.
But!
Others who are capable to follow? They will benefit what I intended for your benefit.

So? Onward, we GO!
 
Cameron143 said:
He used the particular wording because he was speaking about salvation. When speaking of salvation,
Paul employs a particular word to stress that the gift is from God and graciously given. It still means given.
What gift of God is not freely given? What duress is God under when He is gracious?
The plain meaning of the verse is that suffering, like believing, is given.
Click to expand...
All good things come from God... another one of many Biblical truths these free willers deny.

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1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 
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Rufus said:
Yes, it's "for all mankind" in the qualitative sense but not quantitatively; for God does not love all, despises the proud, gives his grace to the humble and to his covenant God-Fearing elect, and circumcises the hearts of his covenant people. Nowhere in scripture will you find that any of these promises were made to all men w/o exception.
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You are very well insulated, sir.
You don't feel a thing.
 
Genez said:
Get in line behind Rufus, who talks to his imaginary punching bag, as to avoid dealing with that I actually said.
It amounts to a waste of time trying to reason with you as well.
But!
Others who are capable to follow? They will benefit what I intended for your benefit.

So? Onward, we GO!
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I don't mind being in line but I won't be told to get in line by you.

And it's not me you need to reason with it's yourself.
 
Cameron143 said:
He used the particular wording because he was speaking about salvation. When speaking of salvation, Paul employs a particular word to stress that the gift is from God and graciously given. It still means given.
What gift of God is not freely given? What duress is God under when He is gracious? The plain meaning of the verse is that suffering, like believing, is given.
Click to expand...

Yup, Cameron, sounds to me like the word means to "give" (or "given") within the context you described above. Seems pretty clear, doesn't it?

[Luk 7:21 KJV] 21 And in that same hour he cured many of [their] infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many [that were] blind he gave[G5483] sight.
[Act 27:24 KJV] 24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given[G5483] thee all them that sail with thee.
[Rom 8:32 KJV] 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he[G5483] not with him also freely give[G5483] us all things?
[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given[G5483] to us of God.
[Gal 3:18 KJV] 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave[G5483] [it] to Abraham by promise.
[Phl 2:9 KJV] 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given[G5483] him a name which is above every name:
 
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rogerg said:
here.


Yup, Cameron, sounds to me like the word means to "give" (or "given") within the context you described above. Seems pretty clear, doesn't it?

[Luk 7:21 KJV] 21 And in that same hour he cured many of [their] infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many [that were] blind he gave[G5483] sight.
[Act 27:24 KJV] 24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given[G5483] thee all them that sail with thee.
[Rom 8:32 KJV] 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he[G5483] not with him also freely give[G5483] us all things?
[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given[G5483] to us of God.
[Gal 3:18 KJV] 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave[G5483] [it] to Abraham by promise.
[Phl 2:9 KJV] 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given[G5483] him a name which is above every name:
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It has been given onto to you to believe.
Why?
Because?
You passed the test God had you go through in his drawing you.
 
Genez wrote yesterday in part:
If God's grace did not sovereignly restrain the flesh by means of the Holy Spirit?
Nobody - no one - could begin to believe!
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Are you saying here that sinners are powerless to restrain the flesh (their own sin nature)?

And you also seem to be saying that if God did not begin the work of salvation, no one would be able to "begin to believe"?

Finally, who completes the salvation that God sovereignly began?
 
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