Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

So, that would mean that sinners can know what the Gospel is presenting to them without needing to be regenerated to know.

Why would it mean that? The Gospel is only known by Special Revelation when applied by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Genez]

Why would it mean that? The Gospel is only known by Special Revelation when applied by the Holy Spirit.

Rufus.... I do not belong to your cult.

You are going to have to do better than that to make your point stick.

Where did you get your "special revelation" idea from?
From personal experience?

......

 

[Rufus]

God can be man centered.

Jesus Christ is God, being man centered.

But Jesus' love for God always compelled him to live a God-centered life! Jesus did not come into this world to please, glorify or exalt the sons of men.

 

[Rufus]

Rufus.... I do not belong to your cult.

You are going to have to do better than that to make your point stick.

Where did you get your "special revelation" idea from?
From personal experience?

......

"Special" Revelation simply means divinely inspired revelation, as opposed to Natural Revelation (the external world we observe around us), and also opposed to Intuitive Revelation (man's invisible, hidden world within). None of your hoidy toidy Piled High and Dry scholars ever taught you this basic truth?

 

[Cameron143]

Right. And any of those men who CHOOSE to follow him/them there.

The comment was to a poster who said hell was created as an act of justice and love. I was simply pointing out that it wasn't.

 

[sawdust]

Barack Obama's tenure as the 44th president of the United States began with
his first inauguration on January 20, 2009, and ended on January 20, 2017.

(nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more)

 

[sawdust]

Scriptural evidence as been applied to this thread thousands of times, it just your free will sib nature is to important to care.

And because of your stubbornness to support people who you think are your friends, you'll never know anything less.

Neither will you accept the truth because all you want to do is support your very abusive friends at what ever cost.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black mate.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What you conveniently overlook in Gen 3:15 is the decree of enmity between the woman and the serpent. You jumped straight to the messianic portion of the text without dealing with decree that concerned the woman.

We discussed that back in July, Rufus ...

That God put enmity between Eve and satan was a necessity because Eve was so easily beguiled in her unfallen state. Adam was not tricked into eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Even Gen 3:21 doesn't help you because Eve's two acknowledgments long follow God's atoning provision -- which is entirely backwards according to FWT. Her confession and request for forgiveness should have preceded both vv. 15 and 21! I mean look what YOU wrote above that I highlighted in red? Where is the evidence of faith on part of either A or E prior to the above two verses?

you and I discussed this back in July (pages 119, 120, 122, 125, 130, 134).

I believe both Adam and Eve believed what God stated in Gen 3:15 concerning Messiah.

You do not believe Adam believed God.

you and I are not in agreement concerning this point ...

And how does Adam's naming his wife "Eve" rise to the level of him having personal faith!?

Because Adam knew Eve believed the promise ... and because Adam believed the promise ... Adam change Eve's name from'iššâ (woman) to ḥaûâ (living).

Charles Spurgeon (bold mine):​

​

“She was not a mother at all, but as the life was to come through her by virtue of the promised seed, Adam marks his full conviction of the truth of the promise though at the time the woman had borne no children.”​

I don't see in the text where it's stated that both of them were parents of the spiritual living.

there's a lot you do not "see in the text" ... and that is of your own doing because you close your eyes to what you have been shown.

So, yes...you are forced to ignore the implications to your interpretation of Gen 3:21 since you use this text as "proof" that God saved both our first parents, yet there is zero evidence that Adam confessed his sin or sought God's forgiveness.

The fact that God made sacrifice/offering is "proof" that God saved both Adam and Eve ... and He did so after they believed concerning Messiah.

And...since you so glibly put A&E in the same salvation/grace/faith boat together, how come God didn't do that in 3:22-24!? Maybe Eve was "more saved" than Adam? Why didn't God's anger burn against both of them? Why didn't He include the woman in his eviction notice? And I could ask the same question re v. 15: Why didn't God place enmity between the serpent and both our first parents?

God's anger was against satan ... not Adam and Eve. Because God is just, He had to chasten Adam and Eve for their sin.

With satan, God announced his complete destruction in the promised Seed crushing his head.

With Eve, God announced her sorrow and struggle, yet she will live.

With Adam, God announced his toil and hardship, yet he will live.

Question: do you believe Eve was allowed to remain in the garden of Eden? I have asked you this question before, but you have not answered.

You lame interpretation of Genesis is based upon your personal assumptions that you read into the passage.

whatever ... I have provided my understanding of the record ... you disagree ... move along.
.

 

[sawdust]

By what is the soul and body sustained through 'life'?

I don't really understand your question Mem?

They are life in themselves. One is human life the other physical or biological life. Ultimately God sustains all life (and non-life for that matter) by the power of His word. This is why we cannot live apart from Him.

Hebrews 1:3
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Happy to explain more if that hasn't answered your question.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I love this verse ...

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Me too! It gives me great comfort to know that God's love for his people is conditional in nature.

yes ... conditioned on ... If a man love me, he will keep my words.

Do you love the Lord Jesus Christ?

Do you keep the words of the Lord Jesus Christ?
.

 

[sawdust]

Such nonsense! And parroting the lie of Satan at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation. Yikes.

Go learn what this means.

John 11: 25-26
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

You don't know half of what you think you know and the half you do know needs work.

You might think you can hide the real you behind your pretty pictures but all is seen by the Lord.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Don't you know that "belief" flows from God's grace/power?

I know what is stated in Romans 1:16-19

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Those who believe the gospel of Christ receive the blessing.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence.

You and rogerg can stick with your "God saved me through Jesus Christ by His mercy and grace alone" ... I'll stick with what God says.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Cameron143 ... please note, I'm responding to your Post 19,759 and your post 19,807 ... just letting you know because in the past when I responded to 2 separate posts, you commented about my having done so ... can't remember the comment ... just recall you said something at the time ... so thought I'd let you know ...

The verse is simple. It was given to saved individuals to believe on Christ. It was not given to those who don't believe to believe on Christ. It's no more complicated than that. When God gives to an individual to believe on Christ, they believe on Christ. If He doesn't, individuals remain in unbelief.

And yet it says it was given them to believe on Him. Sounds like faith is bequeathed as well.

what you're saying is that those who are already born again ... so they have already confessed the Lord Jesus Christ is lord and they have already believed God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead (Rom 10:9) ... these born again believers need God to give "them to believe on Him".

You have been shown what is the meaning of the verse (Post 19,663 ... Post 19,675) ... ... I asked if you disagreed ... you waffled.

Your point is that God must give something to the born again believer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Who the born again believer already believes in ... makes no sense (kinda like that born again in order to believe the gospel by which we are born again) ... but it's what you believe ... shrug
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Satan is the one who comes to rob and steal....

He would rob you of any good sense you make with the Word if you give what he says a chance.

Some of the worst detractors among believers causing staying from the strait and narrow, are ones who have a strong weakness
for envy and jealousy.

They don't want others to have what they fail to have. Failing to that, grace would supply them as well.
Envy and jealousy produces selective stupidity. It sets up its defense by denial of the truth presented them.

If they would only humble themselves by facing the exposed error that they have been finding mutual pride in.
They are cherishing that bond more than the Lord Himself. But, they will deny that as well.

Jealousy and denial go out on blind dates.

pickin' up what you're layin' down.

"jealousy and denial go out on blind dates" ... heh ... I believe they went on a date last night ...
.

 

[Rufus]

We discussed that back in July, Rufus ...








you and I discussed this back in July (pages 119, 120, 122, 125, 130, 134).

I believe both Adam and Eve believed what God stated in Gen 3:15 concerning Messiah.

You do not believe Adam believed God.

you and I are not in agreement concerning this point ...





Because Adam knew Eve believed the promise ... and because Adam believed the promise ... Adam change Eve's name from'iššâ (woman) to ḥaûâ (living).

Charles Spurgeon (bold mine):​

​

“She was not a mother at all, but as the life was to come through her by virtue of the promised seed, Adam marks his full conviction of the truth of the promise though at the time the woman had borne no children.”​

there's a lot you do not "see in the text" ... and that is of your own doing because you close your eyes to what you have been shown.





The fact that God made sacrifice/offering is "proof" that God saved both Adam and Eve ... and He did so after they believed concerning Messiah.





God's anger was against satan ... not Adam and Eve. Because God is just, He had to chasten Adam and Eve for their sin.

With satan, God announced his complete destruction in the promised Seed crushing his head.

With Eve, God announced her sorrow and struggle, yet she will live.

With Adam, God announced his toil and hardship, yet he will live.

Question: do you believe Eve was allowed to remain in the garden of Eden? I have asked you this question before, but you have not answered.





whatever ... I have provided my understanding of the record ... you disagree ... move along.
.

You believe, you believe...without a shred of biblical evidence that Adam exercised faith. Your belief system is driven by your carnal desires, which to you are your final authorities for understanding scripture! And the proof is in the eating: God was forced to save Eve! Or God was indebted to Eve to save her. You basically said it was NECESSARY for God to save her, which means she was not saved by Grace since "grace" by definition is unmerited, unearned, undeserved favor. If Eve's salvation was a necessity, then God had no choice!

Eve left the Garden with Adam because God joined them together in the beginning. So...in spite of their sins, God chose, in his infinite Wisdom, to work His ETERNAL plan of salvation through both of them. But this doesn't change the unalterable facts that Adam is M.I.A. in Gen 3:15 and Eve is M.I.A. in Gen 3:22-24 -- and you have no real answers to these two biblical facts. The best you can do is create the myth of Adam's faith to which there is no biblical evidence, which again stands in sharp contrast to the evidence for Eve.

Furthermore, if either A or E truly had faith prior to Gen 3:15 and prior to Gen 3:22-24, then why didn't they both RUN TO GOD seeking his forgiveness instead of running FROM Him!? Is that the way faith works in the real world, according to you FWers: Everyone has the capacity, the ability to freely seek out God for his forgiveness, do they not? But what do we find instead: God sought out both of them and sovereignly saved Eve BEFORE she exercised any faith, but passed over Adam.

Everything I have just said is fully supported by scripture.

 

[cv5]

Go learn what this means.

John 11: 25-26
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

You don't know half of what you think you know and the half you do know needs work.

You might think you can hide the real you behind your pretty pictures but all is seen by the Lord.

Good grief she can't hardly hide the real her to even us Jethro Bodine type hillbillies.

 

[Genez]

But Jesus' love for God always compelled him to live a God-centered life! Jesus did not come into this world to please, glorify or exalt the sons of men.

In case you missed it...

I said...

" Jesus Christ is God, being man centered. "

You failed to grasp the importance of what was said, and went off on another triggered rant of yours.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

One only has to go back 1 verse to see it is not talking about the opportunity of salvation but salvation itself is in view. Verse 28 speaks of the salvation of God. How is it of God? The Apostle goes on to explain: unto you it is given...to believe on Him...

Philippians 1:28-29

28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Your claim does not align with the verb tense used for the word "believe" in Phil 1:29.

"salvation itself is in view" ... "unto you it is given ... to believe on Him".

Again, Phil 1:29 is written to born again believers ... salvation had already been granted ... salvation occurred sometime in the past for these believers.

the word "believe" in vs 29 is in the present tense ... so it is not salvation which is in view ... to believe on Him after we are born again as we go through times of trial and suffering ... keep looking to Him as He is the One Who will guide us through ... looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2) ... yes, He will help us in our time of need.

Salvation is not in view in Phil 1:29.

What is in view is what has already been explained to you ... praying God gives increase ...
.

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron143 ... please note, I'm responding to your Post 19,759 and your post 19,807 ... just letting you know because in the past when I responded to 2 separate posts, you commented about my having done so ... can't remember the comment ... just recall you said something at the time ... so thought I'd let you know ...









what you're saying is that those who are already born again ... so they have already confessed the Lord Jesus Christ is lord and they have already believed God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead (Rom 10:9) ... these born again believers need God to give "them to believe on Him".

You have been shown what is the meaning of the verse (Post 19,663 ... Post 19,675) ... ... I asked if you disagreed ... you waffled.

Your point is that God must give something to the born again believer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Who the born again believer already believes in ... makes no sense (kinda like that born again in order to believe the gospel by which we are born again) ... but it's what you believe ... shrug
.

Born again believers don't need God to give them to believe on Christ. They already believe on Him. The passage is saying that God, at some previous point had given them to believe. In like manner, He has also given them to suffer.

 

[Genez]

Born again believers don't need God to give them to believe on Christ. They already believe on Him. The passage is saying that God, at some previous point had given them to believe. In like manner, He has also given them to suffer.

You guys never get beyond arguing over the embryonic stage.

Come back ten years from now?

And , you'll still be on the same maturity level.