Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

But it only "frees up" the souls of God's humble, covenant people. Saving Grace is not given to every soul on the planet. It's
only given to the people God has loved in eternity, i.e. God-fearers, believers, the righteous and lovers of God and His Son.

And for your info, men hate godly knowledge because there's no fear of God in their eyes.

Psalm 36 verses 1-4 ~ An oracle is in my heart regarding the transgression of the wicked man: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For his eyes are too full of conceit to detect or hate his own sin. The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and well-doing. Even on his bed he plots wickedness; he sets himself on a path that is not good; he fails to reject evil.

 

[Edify]

Who is 1 John 2 v 19 written to?

Those of his day in the church that had antichrists in them.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [d]it would be evident that they all are not of us. 20[e]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
This is not prophetic, but can be used as an example of what can happen in all the churches, even today.
These were already sinners, so they could not fall away. Only genuine christians can do that. I hope that helps.

 

[cv5]

Call, isn't an issue to my prior post. Jesus was God on Earth.

1 Corinthians 2 tells us, man in the natural mind state cannot understand the things of God.Because those things are spiritually discerned.

Only when Holy Spirit (God) enters in,chooses to show grace to whom God calls through that contact,can the natural mind abate and then understand the things of God.
John 6:44

Even Jesus in his ministry did not teach in a way that would allow all to understand his teachings.

We know this when Jesus told his Disciples they did not choose him. He chose them.
We know this by the exclusive title afforded God's chosen,the Elect of God.
We know this by learning God wrote the names of whom he would Save in The Lambs Book of (Eternal) Life, before the foundation of the world.

And we know Jesus did not come to Save everyone or else he would not have said,no one can come to him unless he (being God on Earth) calls ,leads,them.

ny verse where Jesus says he will be lifted up and draw all people to himself, must be understood in the exclusive context repeatedly noted I. his teachings.

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why do you speak unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them it is NOT given.” Matthew 13:10-11


“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them.” Matthew 13:34

All of which concatenates with Isaiah 6:9-10
9 He (the Lord) said, “Go and tell these people:
“‘Listen continually, but don’t understand.
Look continually, but don’t perceive.’
10 Make the hearts of these people calloused;
make their ears deaf and their eyes blind.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
their hearts might understand and they might repent and be healed.”


and Matthew 13,
14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:
‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people’s heart has grown callous;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn, and I would heal them.’

Sure it is. Both drawing and calling are ubiquitous, God showing no partiality.

However, one may volitionally refuse the call/drawing, leading to the Isaiah 6:10 judgement.

Alternatively, others linger but eventually fall away as "dropouts" and "flunkies". They are unserious and Jesus has no use for them in ministry.

However some DO NOT choose to "drop out" and DO "pass the test". Now to THESE who "hold on" (like Jacob) in persistent faith, to THEM Jesus CONTINUES to reveal the truths of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Easy as pie. All settled now?

Everyone here should be able to confirm my assertions with truckloads of proof texts. I'm too busy with some major engineering projects to fill in the blanks. Thanks.

 

[Magenta]

Those of his day in the church that had antichrists in them.
18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that [d]it would be evident that they all are not of us. 20[e]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
This is not prophetic, but can be used as an example of what can happen in all the churches, even today.
These were already sinners, so they could not fall away. Only genuine christians can do that. I hope that helps.

John is the only one to use that term, I believe it is something like four times?

Someone with the spirit of the anti-Christ is not a believer.

1 John 4 v 2-4 By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time. 4You, little children, are from God and have overcome them, because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.…

2 John 1 v 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming
of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

1 John 2 v 22
Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 2 v 18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming,
so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.

 

[Doll]

Sure it is. Both drawing and calling are ubiquitous, God showing no partiality.

However, one may volitionally refuse the call/drawing, leading to the Isaiah 6:10 judgement.

Alternatively, others linger but eventually fall away as
"dropouts" and "flunkies". They are unserious and Jesus has no use for them in ministry.

However some DO NOT choose to "drop out" and DO "pass the test". Now to THESE who "hold on" (like Jacob) in persistent faith, to THEM Jesus CONTINUES to reveal the truths of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Easy as pie. All settled now?

Everyone here should be able to confirm my assertions with truckloads of proof texts. I'm too busy with some major engineering projects to fill in the blanks. Thanks.

I'll stick with what God says.
If he showed no partiality he would have drowned the whole world. He would have burned all people alive in Sodom and Gomorrah.

He wouldn't have said,no one can come to Jesus unless God leads them.
He wouldn't refer to his chosen as his Elect.Bevwouldntbhave written the names of his Elect,those he would save,on a book before he created the world.Before anyone would need to be Saved.

If God wanted to Save everyone,he could have done that without the Gospel and it's telling us, the Saved are an elite group predetermined by God before he created the world.

That observation will be denigrated as Calvinism I'm sure.
I don't know anything about Calvinism except it is the go to for those who deny God's Sovereign Election of his Saints.

That's nothing I can overcome. Nor do I need to. Jesus said it,God ordained it,and that's it.

It's odd people who say they're saved insist they ose God. He didn't choose them,just so to discredit a mortal dead man named Calvin.
In so doing they miss everything God said.
They have eyes but do not see.

Just as Jesus said was intended.

Who can be mad at folks following God's will.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It's odd people who say they're saved insist they chose God. He didn't choose them,just so to discredit a mortal dead man named Calvin.

We chose God because he first chose us.

 

[Doll]

I'll stick with what God says....

Reposted below because the 5 minute edit window closed.

I'll stick with what God says.
If he showed no partiality he would have drowned the whole world. He would have burned all people alive in Sodom and Gomorrah.

He wouldn't have said,no one can come to Jesus unless God leads them.
He wouldn't refer to his chosen as his Elect. He wouldn't have written the names of his Elect,those he would save,in a book before he created the world.Before anyone would need to be Saved.

If God wanted to Save everyone,he could have done that without the Gospel and its telling us, the Saved are an elite group predetermined by God before he created the world.

That observation will be denigrated as Calvinism I'm sure.
I don't know anything about Calvinism except it is the go to for those who deny God's Sovereign Election of his Saints.

That's nothing I can overcome. Nor do I need to. Jesus said it,God ordained it,and that's it.

It's odd people who say they're saved insist they chose God. He didn't choose them,just so to discredit a mortal dead man named Calvin.
In so doing they miss everything God said.
They have eyes but do not see.

Just as Jesus said was intended.

Who can be mad at folks following God's will.

 

[Doll]

We chose God because he first chose us.

Exactly. It's the order of his will.

 

[cv5]

I'll stick with what God says.
If he showed no partiality he would have drowned the whole world. He would have burned all people alive in Sodom and Gomorrah.

He wouldn't have said,no one can come to Jesus unless God leads them.
He wouldn't refer to his chosen as his Elect.Bevwouldntbhave written the names of his Elect,those he would save,on a book before he created the world.Before anyone would need to be Saved.

If God wanted to Save everyone,he could have done that without the Gospel and it's telling us, the Saved are an elite group predetermined by God before he created the world.

That observation will be denigrated as Calvinism I'm sure.
I don't know anything about Calvinism except it is the go to for those who deny God's Sovereign Election of his Saints.

That's nothing I can overcome. Nor do I need to. Jesus said it,God ordained it,and that's it.

It's odd people who say they're saved insist they ose God. He didn't choose them,just so to discredit a mortal dead man named Calvin.
In so doing they miss everything God said.
They have eyes but do not see.

Just as Jesus said was intended.

Who can be mad at folks following God's will.

I've heard it all before. Those kinds of super-determinist misapprehensions are quite common at this point in end time Church history. Fortunately it's not my problem. Not anymore.

Good luck. Escaping the cults, heresies, religious con-men and snake-oil peddlers and various snares ain't easy. But definitely possible.

 

[Doll]

I've heard it all before. Those kinds of super-determinist misapprehensions are quite common at this point in end time Church history. Fortunately it's not my problem. Not anymore.

Good luck. Escaping the cults, heresies, religious con-men and snake-oil peddlers and various snares ain't easy. But definitely possible.

God,The Word, manifest a cult?
You'll answer for every word of that.

We can't get mad with those like yourself.
Jesus told us all about you and those like you. You are exactly what he intended you to be.
To you,it is not given to understand.

And we know this by how you speak to those in Christ here,whom you judge as you judge me. And then address them in condescending sarcastic ways.
That's not going to bring someone over to your way of thinking.

It certainly will never lead God's Saints to your path.

If it be God's will to change your mind,you'll know it.

Till then.

 

[cv5]

God,The Word, manifest a cult?
You'll answer for every word of that.

We can't get mad with those like yourself.
Jesus told us all about you and those like you. You are exactly what he intended you to be.
To you,it is not given to understand.

And we know this by how you speak to those in Christ here,whom you judge as you judge me. And then address them in condescending sarcastic ways.
That's not going to bring someone over to your way of thinking.

It certainly will never lead God's Saints to your path.

If it be God's will to change your mind,you'll know it.

Till then.

Well, the difference between many here and myself, is that I spend a couple of hours per day (other times 3 or 4) reviewing PhD level Bible lectures. So frankly, I know exactly what I am talking about, even if you do not.

And yes, definitely, Jesus chose the twelve. Because they heeded the call, did not drop out, passed the testings and did what the faithful always do.....they "held on". So those were they whom He chose. You know......those that He knew in His omniscience actually BELIEVED Him.

Uh huh. That's right. Jesus chose those who BELIEVED Him. And had the courage to stick around.

And yep ......the Calvinists got that choosing business completely wrong. As they do most every other Biblical principle. Because you see they are the Biblically illiterate dropouts and flunkies.

Good luck to you. And look out. There are Biblically illiterate frauds fakes and con-men out there who are gonna eat the unwary for lunch.

 

[Magenta]

We chose God because he first chose us.

John 15 verse 16 plus from 1 Peter 2 verse 9 ~ You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a people to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

 

[Doll]

Well, the difference between many here and myself, is that I spend a couple of hours per day (other times 3 or 4) reviewing PhD level Bible lectures. So frankly, I know exactly what I am talking about, even if you do not.

And yes, definitely, Jesus chose the twelve. Because they heeded the call, did not drop out, passed the testings and did what the faithful always do.....they "held on". So those were they whom He chose. You know......those that He knew in His omniscience actually BELIEVED Him.

Uh huh. That's right. Jesus chose those who BELIEVED Him. And had the courage to stick around.

And yep ......the Calvinists got that choosing business completely wrong. As they do most every other Biblical principle. Because you see they are the Biblically illiterate dropouts and flunkies.

Good luck to you. And look out. There are Biblically illiterate frauds fakes and con-men out there who are gonna eat the unwary for lunch.

And good luck to you as well.

 

[Magenta]

The Biblical verse 2 John ch 1 v 11, says, "for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil
deeds". In this verse, "God speed" is an archaic greeting, and the instruction is to not provide
hospitality or greetings to false teachers to avoid being seen as a partner in their harmful deeds.

 

[GWH]

Exactly. It's the order of his will.

Exactly. God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not.

 

[cv5]

Exactly. God initiates; sinners cooperate--or not.

Here is one way to cooperate. By being WILLING to listen. Is not the whole of God's Word filled with this principle?

[Luk 10:41 KJV] 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

[Luk 10:42 KJV] 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

And yes, the Calvinists around here have "taken away" from her that good part.

 

[lrs68]

John 15 verse 16 plus from 1 Peter 2 verse 9 ~ You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a people to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Praise God for choosing the Disciples who were specific in carrying out the works started by Christ Himself.

 

[cv5]

Here is one way to cooperate. By being WILLING to listen. Is not the whole of God's Word filled with this principle?

[Luk 10:41 KJV] 41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

[Luk 10:42 KJV] 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

And yes, the Calvinists around here have "taken away" from her that good part.

[Luk 10:42 KJV] 42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

"chosen" (G1586) huh? Really. How dare she defy the dogma of the determinists!

 

[BillyBob]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

When the unbeliever asks what must I do to earn hell? Reply nothing, Christ has already done it.

Why are they asking, if they are not a believer?

 

[cv5]

Praise God for choosing the Disciples who were specific in carrying out the works started by Christ Himself.

Why would God choose anybody who WILL not come when called, WILL not commit their lives, WILL not listen and WILL not believe Him?

Well.....He didn't. For reference He chose Jacob and not Esau.

The Calvinists twist this choosing business into paradoxical absurdity as they do practically every other salvific principle.