Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

told you you'd say something like that ...

No verse tells us he was regenerated before he left Ur of Chaldees or when he left Haran. No verse which tells us that faith was imputed to Abraham before he believed in Gen 15. No verse which tells us that righteousness was imputed to Abraham before he believed in Gen 15.
.

No verse tells us that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God either. No verse says that the natural man doesn't receive the things of God either. But both those things were always true. They didn't become true at the time they were written.
Again, the Bible is a book that gives progressive revelation. Truth is true whether it is revealed or not.

 

[GWH]

No verse tells us that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God either. No verse says that the natural man doesn't receive the things of God either. But both those things were always true. They didn't become true at the time they were written.
Again, the Bible is a book that gives progressive revelation. Truth is true whether it is revealed or not.

You need to stop using the Reader's Digest abridged version of the Bible and check out Romans 10:17!

 

[Cameron143]

You need to stop using the Reader's Digest abridged version of the Bible and check out Romans 10:17!

Perhaps you need to share by what authority you command things of me.

 

[cv5]

You need to stop using the Reader's Digest abridged version of the Bible and check out Romans 10:17!

I think he needs to call the pest control guy and get rid of those squirrels running amok in his attic.....

 

[Magenta]

Christ Jesus died for all, not the "efficacious for some"

Are you a universalist, then? That seems odd. Do you not also hold to ECT?

Of course we do know free willers contradict themselves all over the place. But still... that one is massive.

 

[BillyBob]

This is the word of God tulipists should believe.

You are correct when you say God enables. And no Reformed person that I have come across would deny this. That is the very definition of Grace.
The point is that He did not enable us from the Get/Go. If He had, there would be no need for the Grace that enables us. The ability to obey is a gift given to God's people only, and this ability comes by receiving a new heart. Therefore, there is no "I" in the fact that God has blessed us with this ability.
I know that you believe that this would make God unfair, but count your blessings if you have indeed been enabled.

 

[Magenta]

You are correct when you say God enables. And no Reformed person that I have come across would deny this. That is the very definition of Grace.
The point is that He did not enable us from the Get/Go. If He had, there would be no need for the Grace that enables us. The ability to obey is a gift given to God's people only, and this ability comes by receiving a new heart. Therefore, there is no "I" in the fact that God has blessed us with this ability.
I know that you believe that this would make God unfair, but count your blessings if you have indeed been enabled.

My experience has been that FWers equate being enabled to being forced. They have zero understanding.

And of course being enabled is Biblical, which is why we believe it

Jesus’ words in John 6 v 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 v 21 and 2 v 13; Ephesians 2 v 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 v 6 and 2 v 13

 

[cv5]

As a MFWer, please allow me to enlighten you regarding what we believe:

God enables sinners to repent of loving darkness and seek the light. (Matt. 4:16-17)
God enables sinners to have MFW and seek Him. (Matt. 7:7, Heb. 11:6)
God enables sinners to be freed from slavery. (Rom. 6:16-17)
God enables sinners to become His children. (Rom. 4:13-18, 7:21-8:17)
God enables those blinded by Satan to be healed. (John 9:41)
God enables sinners to learn that salvation is through faith, not works. (Gal. 2:15-21)

This is the word of God tulipists should believe.

Better stated:
God by His grace provides OPPORTUNITY for sinners to CHOOSE the light.
All are called, but only those who CHOOSE to RECEIVE Him ENTER INTO the MARRIAGE covenant of life and peace.

Then the consequences.

 

[BillyBob]

Better stated:
God by His grace provides OPPORTUNITY for sinners to CHOOSE the light.
All are called, but only those who CHOOSE to RECEIVE Him ENTER INTO the MARRIAGE covenant of life and peace.

Then the consequences.

No, his original statement was correct. God enables!

 

[cv5]

You are correct when you say God enables. And no Reformed person that I have come across would deny this. That is the very definition of Grace.
The point is that He did not enable us from the Get/Go. If He had, there would be no need for the Grace that enables us. The ability to obey is a gift given to God's people only, and this ability comes by receiving a new heart. Therefore, there is no "I" in the fact that God has blessed us with this ability.
I know that you believe that this would make God unfair, but count your blessings if you have indeed been enabled.

So behind the quaint religious sounding terms, what you are actually saying is:
The ONLY efficacious salvific prescription and principle is the "pre-birth sovereign lottery".

Right? I mean that what Calvinism always boils down to. Right?

 

[Solitude]

So behind the quaint religious sounding terms, what you are actually saying is:
The ONLY efficacious salvific prescription and principle is the "pre-birth sovereign lottery".

Right? I mean that what Calvinism always boils down to. Right?

God knowingly creates those He knows will be saved and those who won't be saved.

 

[Magenta]

No, his original statement was correct. God enables!

It is part of how we know the whole "free will" shtick is a false doctrine.

But free willers are sure stuck on it regardless!

2 Corinthians 4 v 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

 

[BillyBob]

So behind the quaint religious sounding terms, what you are actually saying is:
The ONLY efficacious salvific prescription and principle is the "pre-birth sovereign lottery".

Right? I mean that what Calvinism always boils down to. Right?

God has always had His people, those that He treasures above others. Do you think that He has somehow changed? Heb 13:8

 

[Genez]

What makes no sense is talking about a passage of scripture about sovereignty, and projecting choice into it.

God sovereignly, by means of His Justice, has made choice an issue!

You seem to think God is going to do whatever He wants no matter what others are doing.
God's Sovereignty PROTECTS freedom and liberty!

It has gotten to this point.

You are so brainwashed, ​

​

............ I will say what is true, ​

​

.............................................but not said for you!​

​

Brainwashing happens!

God's Sovereignty desires and PROTECTS freedom and liberty!

God demands justice from his people.

Justice requires CHOICE!

And, you have made your choice.
To ignore whatever gets in your way of what you want others to believe.

You are a disrupter.
Not, a contributor.

Because?

You are brainwashed by dogma.

 

[GWH]

Perhaps you need to share by what authority you command things of me.

I did not command you, I said you need to. Let's get the semantics right and then we can go from there.

 

[Magenta]

God has always had His people, those that He treasures above others. Do you think that He has somehow changed? Heb 13:8

John 10 verses 27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

 

[Genez]

Sure. But weren't considering those verses. We were considering Romans 9. None of that is present. It has to be imposed upon the verses.

Why do you suppose Paul doesn't here?

I see.
God is one kind of God when He works through certain prophets.
And, a different God when working through another?

God is immutable.

 

[Cameron143]

God sovereignly, by means of His Justice, has made choice an issue!

You seem to think God is going to do whatever He wants no matter what others are doing.
God's Sovereignty PROTECTS freedom and liberty!

It has gotten to this point.

You are so brainwashed, ​

​

............ I will say what is true, ​

​

.............................................but not said for you!​

​

Brainwashing happens!

God's Sovereignty desires and PROTECTS freedom and liberty!

God demands justice from his people.

Justice requires CHOICE!

And, you have made your choice.
To ignore whatever gets in your way of what you want others to believe.

You are a disrupter.
Not, a contributor.

Because?

You are brainwashed by dogma.

Again you change the subject. Choice is not in the verses other than God's choices. And choice isn't the issue. No one denies that man can make choices.
Also, I'm not here to disrupt anything; merely to share perspective. More poor discernment on your part.

 

[Genez]

Again you change the subject. Choice is not in the verses other than God's choices. And choice isn't the issue. No one denies that man can make choices.
Also, I'm not here to disrupt anything; merely to share perspective. More poor discernment on your part.

Again, when it shifts to finding the answer... you jump back in protest based upon your legalistic demand!

You are two different people.

 

[Cameron143]

I see.
God is one kind of God when He works through certain prophets.
And, a different God when working through another?

God is immutable.

More gobbledygook.