Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Here are several verses that illustrate God expects us to use free will and has created and ordered his creation to give us free will:

Deuteronomy 30:19-20

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

This passage explicitly urges people to "choose life," presenting options between blessing and curse, which underscores human agency in deciding to follow God.


Joshua 24:15

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Here, Joshua calls the people to actively "choose" whom to serve, highlighting the freedom to align with God or other influences.

Yes ... and in Deut 30:17 God says But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away ... so when we turn away from God, we stop our own ears from hearing when He reaches out to us.

Some who have posted in this thread claim that it is God Who stops the ears of mankind so mankind cannot hear and the only way mankind can hear is if God unstops the ears ... then mankind is able to hear and then believe His Word. The claim is that if a person hears His Word and believes, it is because God chose that person before the world began ... that person is one of the "elect".

But that is not what God says ... God tells us we turn from Him and we do not listen.

John 7:17

"If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

Jesus affirms that individuals can align their "will" with God's, implying the ability to choose obedience as a pathway to discernment.

Jesus clarified to those who marveled at His teaching (How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? – John 7:15).

Jesus told them if any of them knew God's Will, they would know whether Jesus was teaching God's Word or whether He was speaking on His own authority.

Revelation 3:20

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me."

Jesus portrays himself as waiting for a response, where hearing and "opening the door" represent a personal choice to invite him into one's life.

I love this verse ... yes, He will come into our lives ... so wonderful, so marvelous!

Romans 10:9-10

"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

Salvation is tied to personal acts of confession and belief, which are presented as deliberate choices of the heart and mouth.

yes, another great truth ... Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed (Rom 10:11).
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[Genez]

Says the four-eyed monkey. Talk about irony!

Who will make a monkey out of those who are walking in their self pride.

God does not change.
Therefore.... You can not win.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Pride comes from within a person's heart -- not from without. Eve was tempted from without and eventually HER pride motivated her to believe the serpent's lie.

"HER pride" ... glad that issue is finally cleared up.

But with Adam, it was all HIS pride!

So now you want me to believe that Adam sat there ... listened to Eve misinterpret God's Word without correcting her ... listened to satan lie to Eve without telling Eve she was being lied to ... watched Eve eat the fruit without stopping her ... then Adam ate and thereby joined his wife in her fallen state ... due to "HIS pride!"

Go peddle your deceitful handling of Scripture elsewhere.

Tell me: Who held out the "carrot of pride" to Lucifer before he sinned and was cast out of heaven?

are you comparing your beloved Eve to Lucifer?
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[reneweddaybyday]

Of course Adam wanted to be just like God -- just like Lucifer did!

nope ... Eve was the one who was enticed to follow the steps of lucifer.

Eve was Adam's wife and Adam became one flesh with her.

Adam wanted his eyes to be open and to have the kind of knowledge only his Creator had at that point in time.

If what you claim is true, then Adam was deceived ... just as Eve was deceived.

However, we know from Scripture that Adam was not deceived ... because Adam was not there when satan deceived Eve. Adam ate only after he knew that his wife had eaten and he ate to join her in her fallen state.

And he wanted all this in spite of all the knowledge of and personal experience with his Creator.

Adam left his Father to cleave to his wife (Gen 2:24).
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[sawdust]

They keep failing to understand one thing.
How the POWER of God's grace operates in drawing one to salvation.

Fuzzy thinking when it comes to what it means that we are saved by grace.
In the drawing of God, the operation of God's power of grace is to force down the tyrannical flesh over the soul, and to raise up the soul to allow that soul to make a choice that would otherwise be impossible without grace.

That is where they lose understanding.

They do not understand the function of the human soul well enough, while dogmatically following a formula (TULIP) which they can not explain when asked.

The best they can come up with is "irresistible grace," which they can not explain. Irresistible grace amounts to a hocus-pocus salvation, which they try to explain away by using God's sovereignty as the means to hide their wizard hiding behind the curtain.

Sane by grace ............

The problem is they think the soul itself is born corrupted and therefore has to be "changed out" (so to speak), they think we need a new heart (rebirth) before we can appreciate the light and truth of God. It is impossible for them to imagine there are those who shun the light and there are those who seek it out when shown by means of God's grace.

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

For them, unless God radically alters the persona (soul), you can't be saved.

I like your "sane by grace".

Believing in God is the "normal", it is what we were created for and to think that somehow doing that is robbing God of glory is sheer lunacy. Creation behaving as creation should is what glorifies God, for by His own admission, what He created was very good.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Many of the comments concerning regeneration, [being made new], tend to sound as though it it has an instant [noticeable] effect on a person. However, I believe that this could happen on the day of your birth.

The new birth within occurs the moment a person believes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16).

It seems to be God's method of setting aside those whom He wishes to save. It does not mean that you are saved immediately. It simply enables you to become saved.

Nope ... regeneration is new birth and, yes, a person is "saved immediately" at the time he or she is regenerated ... regeneration does not simply "enable you to become saved" ... a person is regenerated (born again) at the time he or she is saved by grace through faith. Then the believer is renewed day by day as God continues to work within so that we are able to endure all the trials, afflictions, persecutions, distresses we face in this life (2 Cor 4:7-18).

A person who has been [made new] may continue on for many years as an unbeliever.

A person who has been made new is not an unbeliever. A person is born again of Holy Spirit the moment he or she believes the gospel. At that point, a person is considered a babe in Christ who is to feed on the milk of the Word and grow thereby. As the born again one continues to grow and mature, he or she will get to the point where more meat of the Word ... weightier spiritual matters ... can be understood.

However, God has set the time and method to finish the job, and it will take place on His schedule.

The time of our meeting the Lord Jesus Christ, where we shall see Him face to face ... yes that is on God's schedule.

However, during our lifetime on this earth, we can grow and mature in the things of God to the point where we are no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive – Eph 4:14. This takes place as we feed on the Word of God, spend time in prayer and close fellowship with God (like Jesus did when He walked the earth) ... rest in the quiet comfort of the presence of God ... continue in fellowship with other believers as the world fades and falls away. These are things we can do as we live out our lives. God will work within to bring us along in our spiritual growth.

Those not renewed, will never come to faith. They are lost and without hope.

Cart before the horse ... those who do not believe will never be "regenerated" or "born again".

Those who do not believe are lost and without hope.

Just my opinion. . . . .

yep
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[Genez]

This prescience concept is found nowhere in scripture with respect to election.

It is found in

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms ​

with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be ​

holy and blameless in his sight. In love, he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, ​

in accordance with his pleasure and will." Ephesians 1:3-5.​

As Eve was in Adam?

Before God revealed her to Adam?
To become bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh?

Right now?

We have been chosen by God, and will remain IN HIM, until resurrected!
Resurrected, be revealed as bone of his glorious bones and flesh of His glorious flesh!

​

But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, ​

who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly ​

bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." Philippians 3:20-21​

Our bodies are now in His body.
Just like Eve was in Adam's body, until God revealed her.

Keep in mind!
Moses was nor predestined and chosen to be In Christ like we have been predestined and chosen.
Chosen to be the Bride of Christ!

Want to borrow my glasses now?

 

[sawdust]

Why would God select all He knows would believe [using His foreknowledge], when He already planned it down to the minutest detail before time began?

Huh? It is because of His omniscience and foreknowledge that He could plan down to the last detail before creating anything.

I really don't understand your question.

 

[Genez]

The problem is they think the soul itself is born corrupted and therefore has to be "changed out" (so to speak), they think we need a new heart (rebirth) before we can appreciate the light and truth of God. It is impossible for them to imagine there are those who shun the light and there are those who seek it out when shown by means of God's grace.

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

For them, unless God radically alters the persona (soul), you can't be saved.

I like your "sane by grace".

Believing in God is the "normal", it is what we were created for and to think that somehow doing that is robbing God of glory is sheer lunacy. Creation behaving as creation should is what glorifies God, for by His own admission, what He created was very good.

There is no merit in believing in God.
For believing only reveals that one is not abnormal.

What merit is there to be found in believing, when that is the way God created for us to be?
Those who reject believing are abnormal and evil.

Why should eating and sleeping merit God saving us?
Same with believing!

Believing is simply the result of God's power of grace having restored us to normal function in our relationship with Him!

grace and peace ...........

 

[Genez]

Why would God select all He knows would believe [using His foreknowledge], when He already planned it down to the minutest detail before time began?

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. ​

In love, he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his ​

pleasure and will." Ephesians 1:4-5​

He did not select all He knows would believe.
Ephesians 1:4-5, reveals to us that He selected only certain ones to be the Bride of Christ!

He chose out from all that He knows would believe?
Only some!
To be the Church!

To be the Bride of His Son!

That is what we have been predestined for!

Think about it...
If God chose to have David be alive in the Church age?
And, not the age of Israel?
Then God would have predestined for David to be born and alive in the Church age
to be a member of the Bride of Christ!

Are you getting it now?


grace and peace .......

 

[cv5]

The problem is they think the soul itself is born corrupted and therefore has to be "changed out" (so to speak), they think we need a new heart (rebirth) before we can appreciate the light and truth of God. It is impossible for them to imagine there are those who shun the light and there are those who seek it out when shown by means of God's grace.

Isaiah 9:2
The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned.

For them, unless God radically alters the persona (soul), you can't be saved.

I like your "sane by grace".

Believing in God is the "normal", it is what we were created for and to think that somehow doing that is robbing God of glory is sheer lunacy. Creation behaving as creation should is what glorifies God, for by His own admission, what He created was very good.

Amen to that.

 

[Rufus]

He does as He sees fit, according to the reaction, or response, He received while drawing someone.

But Rom 9 says that salvation doesn't depend on man's will or man's efforts.

God separated from the one corrupt lump to make a lump for noble purposes. It had to have been his effectual grace/power that empowered the entire second lump to be totally transformed so that they could believe.

 

[Rufus]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. ​

In love, he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his ​

pleasure and will." Ephesians 1:4-5​

He did not select all He knows would believe.
Ephesians 1:4-5, reveals to us that He selected only certain ones to be the Bride of Christ!

He chose out from all that He knows would believe?
Only some!
To be the Church!

To be the Bride of His Son!

That is what we have been predestined for!

Think about it...
If God chose to have David be alive in the Church age?
And, not the age of Israel?
Then God would have predestined for David to be born and alive in the Church age
to be a member of the Bride of Christ!

Are you getting it now?


grace and peace .......

All saints (OT & NT) are the Bride of Christ. In this New Covenant economy, the two groups become ONE! God still has his ONE chosen nation -- but it's not Israel. Of course, Jews are a part of the current chosen nation.

"Are you getting it now?"

 

[Rufus]

Sorry @Rufus buddy, but your flunking out of that course 3 or 4 times already is quite enough.

Too busy right now for remedial students that have no hope of matriculating.

Translate: I can't answer you question in 18,622 because as brilliant as I am, the question is above my pay grade.

 

[Rufus]

Who will make a monkey out of those who are walking in their self pride.

God does not change.
Therefore.... You can not win.

Self-pride! I owe my entire life to Jesus Christ. He literally RESCUED me! But YOU...not so much because you're self-reliant, and self-sufficient and have a heart overflowing with pride!

Another thing that doesn't and cannot change is man's corrupt, sinful nature. It takes nothing less than God's Resurrection Power to transform sinners' hearts.

And I don't have to win! Christ has fought the fight and has won it for me.

 

[Genez]

But Rom 9 says that salvation doesn't depend on man's will or man's efforts.

That means you can pray and fast for forty days.
And? It will not get you saved.

That means, man's will is not God's will in salvation when man thinks he can do something that he thinks God will approve of.
It must be God's will.

Jesus stated it succinctly when he told his disciples that man's works, done in the desire for God to save them, will not do so.
Then, Jesus stated what is God's will is concerning salvation.

Rabbis at that time in Israel, and the Pharisees, had their disciples who would look to them for telling them what works they should do to inherit eternal life.

That is why we see Jesus being approached and asked by some what must they do to inherit eternal life.

Even his own disciples asked Jesus what works would he give them that they must do.

Here is what I am talking about.

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man ​

will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

​

John 6:27-29​

​

What was Jesus answer?

Want to try my glasses again?

​

 

[Genez]

All saints (OT & NT) are the Bride of Christ. In this New Covenant economy, the two groups become ONE! God still has his ONE chosen nation -- but it's not Israel. Of course, Jews are a part of the current chosen nation.

"Are you getting it now?"

You are way behind!

It's summer school for you.

 

[Genez]

Self-pride! I owe my entire life to Jesus Christ. He literally RESCUED me! But YOU...not so much because you're self-reliant, and self-sufficient and have a heart overflowing with pride!

Another thing that doesn't and cannot change is man's corrupt, sinful nature. It takes nothing less than God's Resurrection Power to transform sinners' hearts.

And I don't have to win! Christ has fought the fight and has won it for me.

You talk.

And, talk.

And, deny.

And, you are saved!

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 32 verses 39-41a I will give them one heart and one way, so that they will always fear Me for their own good and for the good of their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will never turn away from Me. Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good.

 

[Cameron143]

Jeremiah 32 verses 39-41a I will give them one heart and one way, so that they will always fear Me for their own good and for the good of their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never turn away from doing good to them, and I will put My fear in their hearts, so that they will never turn away from Me. Yes, I will rejoice in doing them good.

Hmmm...it seems God must give a heart that leads to fear of Him. That can't be right.