Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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C'mon, Magenta, everyone in the world knows that DEATH is truly the wages of surgery (whether AMA-
approved or not). Adam the Innocent suffered unjustly suffered death at the hands of his Surgeon. :rolleyes:
Apparently God killed Abraham too... in the making of a covenant with him... or so we have been told. Who knew?

Although I do disagree. The text does not support such a position as was put forth, then called heavy lifting.

But I do know why it is heavy lifting. Such a load...
 
You can't have a finer coroners report than this one.....

Mat 12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonas would be also listed like Lazarus if that were the case.
There is no mention of Jonas being dead.

God prepared a submarine for Jonas to get Jonas back to where he was supposed to be.
Was Jesus off course with God's plan, too?

You got to be careful not to oversimplify.
 
@Rufus what game you playing there posting what you did ? What was your motive as you've also just put them back to front

About me and groovy
 
Apparently God killed Abraham too... in the making of a covenant with him... or so we have been told. Who knew?

Although I do disagree. The text does not support such a position as was put forth, then called heavy lifting.

But I do know why it is heavy lifting. Such a load...

So all these deaths and resurrections would have moved Jesus to a back burner -- maybe as the Fourth or Fifth Born from the dead? :rolleyes:
 
well I don't know, I mean Johna could have said anything covered in whale guts and all sorts of things for 3 days.
But how can he be literally there when he was disobeying God.
even if he was there was it a dream whilst he was sleeping

It could have been God transporting him there spiritually to show him is errors


Could have been....

Could have been....

Could have been....

Could have been....

Could have been....
 
Yeah, I agree. Genez could have waxed more creative with "woulda", "shoulda", "coulda". :coffee:
yeah no doubt he could have and then maybe you could go yarda yarda yarda 😜

Then maybe you could cut me of some more.
 
Jonas would be also listed like Lazarus if that were the case.
There is no mention of Jonas being dead.

God prepared a submarine for Jonas to get Jonas back to where he was supposed to be.
Was Jesus off course with God's plan, too?

You got to be careful not to oversimplify.
The Tanakh says Jonah cried out from Sheol which is the grave and chapter 2 shows he basically drowns but before dying or his soul fainting he cried out in his mind to God. After this event God sends the fish to protect Jonah's body for 3 days.
 
Jonah literally said that he was in Sheol.

And somebody PLEASE inform @Magenta @Cameron143 @Jordon @Rufus that the "sign of Jonah" is.... drumroll.....

THE RESURRECTION......!

I mean that is exactly what Jesus is saying when He refers the the "sign of Jonah". Physical death then whoops resurrected.

Jonah. Dead. Resurrected. Christ. Dead. Resurrected.

And these people that don't understand this infallible biblical fact spoken by Jesus Himself are NOT biblical illiterate?
Still living rent free in your head. I must have a palatial estate by now.
 
Jonah literally said that he was in Sheol.

And somebody PLEASE inform @Magenta @Cameron143 @Jordon @Rufus that the "sign of Jonah" is.... drumroll.....

THE RESURRECTION......!

I mean that is exactly what Jesus is saying when He refers the the "sign of Jonah". Physical death then whoops resurrected.

Jonah. Dead. Resurrected. Christ. Dead. Resurrected.

And these people that don't understand this infallible biblical fact spoken by Jesus Himself are NOT biblical illiterate?
I think you should probably take more notice to chapter 4 Johna especially the last sentence, and realise something that I have compassion to for people who have sold themselves to sin to

Jonah 4

New International Version



Jonah’s Anger at the Lord’s Compassion
4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”
4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
 
The Tanakh says Jonah cried out from Sheol which is the grave and chapter 2 shows he basically drowns but before dying or his soul fainting he cried out in his mind to God. After this event God sends the fish to protect Jonah's body for 3 days.
Agree. By far the most probable scenario.
And certainly he did definitely die and then was resurrected.

This dramatic "sign" was evidently known to all those God was concerned with, and this "sign" was more than enough to shock the Ninevites into wholesale repentance.
 
I think you should probably take more notice to chapter 4 Johna especially the last sentence, and realise something that I have compassion to for people who have sold themselves to sin to

Jonah 4

New International Version



Jonah’s Anger at the Lord’s Compassion
4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”
4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
Look at Verse 2 closer.

2 He prayed to Adonai, “Now, Adonai, didn’t I say this would happen, when I was still in my own country? That’s why I tried to get away to Tarshish ahead of time! I knew you were a God who is merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in grace, and that you relent from inflicting punishment.

The way Jonah describes God in Verse 2 completely opposes the Reformed viewpoint concerning God chooses who goes to Hell.

A God that relents from inflicting punishment is not sending people to Hell for His Sovereignty and Glory.
 
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Jonas would be also listed like Lazarus if that were the case.
There is no mention of Jonas being dead.

God prepared a submarine for Jonas to get Jonas back to where he was supposed to be.
Was Jesus off course with God's plan, too?

You got to be careful not to oversimplify.
100% Jonah was resurrected from the dead.

I mean that WAS "the sign". Christ confirms this to be the case beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt.
 
I am just being all things to all men...
and your so hard done by to

You'll be telling me your being accused day and night soon to no doubt.
Thought you walking away from me what changed ?

Did you think you just come back and talk to me how you want again ?
 
The Tanakh says Jonah cried out from Sheol which is the grave and chapter 2 shows he basically drowns but before dying or his soul fainting he cried out in his mind to God. After this event God sends the fish to protect Jonah's body for 3 days.

That just took it out of the over simplified phase. Interesting.

But?

Looks like he was swallowed alive.

Jonah 2:1-7

1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the Lord his God.

2 He said: “In my distress I called to the Lord,
and he answered me.
From deep in the realm of the dead I called for help,
and you listened to my cry.
3 You hurled me into the depths,
into the very heart of the seas,
and the currents swirled about me;
all your waves and breakers
swept over me.
4 I said, ‘I have been banished
from your sight;
yet I will look again
toward your holy temple.’
5 The engulfing waters threatened me,
the deep surrounded me;
seaweed was wrapped around my head.
6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in forever.
But you, Lord my God,
brought my life up from the pit.

7 “When my life was ebbing away,
I remembered you, Lord,
and my prayer rose to you,
to your holy temple.
 
100% Jonah was resurrected from the dead.

I mean that WAS "the sign". Christ confirms this to be the case beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt.

There was no resurrection till Jesus.

If he was dead?
It was a resuscitation, not resurrection.
Lazarus was resuscitated, not resurrected.

When one is resurrected, he will never die.
Resuscitation brings one back to life again, only to die later on.
 
and your so hard done by to

You'll be telling me your being accused day and night soon to no doubt.
Thought you walking away from me what changed ?

Did you think you just come back and talk to me how you want again ?

I want you to realize that you need to find a good teacher if you are ever going to advance out of the cocoon you are now in.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:5-6​

I do get slack for that.

But, it's true!
 
There was no resurrection till Jesus.

If he was dead?
It was a resuscitation, not resurrection.
Lazarus was resuscitated, not resurrected.

When one is resurrected, he will never die.
Resuscitation brings one back to life again, only to die later on.
The raising of Jonah was a "type".......:sneaky: