Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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posthuman said:
God placed him into what He calls a deep sleep. it is in Genesis the first mention of the term.

here's 54 more


  1. Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
  2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
  3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
  4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
  5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
  6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
  7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
  8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
  9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
  10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
  11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
  12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
  13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
  14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
  15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
  16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
  17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
  18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
  19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
  20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
  21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
  22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
  23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
  24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
  25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
  26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
  27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
  28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
  29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
  30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
  31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
  32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
  33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
  34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
  35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
  36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
  37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”
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Context, bro. Are you dead serious here === you truly believe Adam actually died when God put him in a sleep to make Eve?

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept:
and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Sounds more like anesthetic-type sleep for surgery...

But you are making the case that Adam died???
 
Jordon said:
but yet cv5 said Adam had great power to resist from eating from the tree of life whilst in his fallen condition ?
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Magenta said:
In fact Adam needed no power to resist since he did not have a choice anyways.

The whole idea of him having power to resist eating from the Tree of Life is ridiculous anyways.

I would ask where people are getting such ideas to spin their yarns, but I know...
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if he, having seen what the effect on his wife, deliberately waited until not long before the appointed time that God would meet with him to eat, this fits the passover pattern, introduced in the 7 days of creation.
 
Magenta said:
Context, bro. Are you dead serious here === you truly believe Adam actually died when God put him in a sleep to make Eve?

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept:
and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Sounds more like anesthetic-type sleep for surgery...

But you are making the case that Adam died???
Click to expand...

yes.

as did Abraham in Genesis 15, and Jonah in the fish.

the context is that without sin, death has no power whatsoever over us, and Adam was without sin when this happened. the context is also that God calls physical death - separation of the spirit from the body - sleep, over and over and over and over.
 
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posthuman said:
if he, having seen what the effect on his wife, deliberately waited until not long before the appointed time that God would meet with him to eat, this fits the passover pattern, introduced in the 7 days of creation.
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Seeing what effect on his wife?
 
posthuman said:
yes.

as did Abraham in Genesis 15, and Jonah in the fish.

the context is that without sin, death has no power whatsoever over us, and Adam was without sin when this happened. the context is also that God calls physical death - separation of the spirit from the body - sleep, over and over and over and over.
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8639. tardemah ►
Lexical Summary
tardemah: Deep sleep, trance

Original Word: תַּרְדֵּמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: tardemah
Pronunciation: tar-day-maw'
Phonetic Spelling: (tar-day-maw')
KJV: deep sleep
NASB: deep sleep, sound sleep
Word Origin: [from H7290 (רָדַם - To sleep deeply)]

1. a lethargy
2. (by implication) trance
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
deep sleep
From radam; a lethargy or (by implication) trance -- deep sleep.
see HEBREW radam


Genesis 2:21
HEB: עַל־ הָאָדָ֖ם וַיִּישָׁ֑ן וַיִּקַּ֗ח אַחַת֙
NAS: upon the man, and he slept; then He took
KJV: upon Adam, and he slept: and he took
INT: upon the man slept took one
 
reneweddaybyday said:
The verse states that Adam was with Eve only when she gave him to eat.

The verse does not state that Adam was with Eve when the serpent beguiled her.
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You are adding to what is stated in Genesis 3. And your addition contradicts that text. Adam was with Eve when they both encountered the serpent. And they were therefore together when they ate.
The Fall
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.





The Father of Adam is God (Luke 3:38).
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True. You referred to a passage that pertained to those who have both a mother and father.

Adam and Eve were one from the moment God made Eve from Adams rib. Adam did not leave his Father to be one with his wife.

Just because Adam did not have a mother, does that invalidate that Adam left his Father and joined his wife in her fallen state? When the Lord Jesus Christ took upon Himself the form of a servant and humbled Himself, He left His Father ... the same Father Who was the Father of Adam.
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What about single mothers ... whose sons are to leave mom to join their wives? ... are they exempt from Gen 2:24 because there's no dad in the picture?

Or single fathers ... their sons don't leave dad because the mother is no longer in the picture?

I have a friend who lost his wife when his children were young. He never remarried and he raised his children ... when his son married, the son was exempt from Gen 2:24?
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Not applicable to what is being discussed in Genesis 3.


Because both sinned.
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If , as you say, Adam was not with Eve when she encountered the serpent and ate of the tree, why would Adam be guilty of Sinning too?

Eve would have brought Adam the fruit she took from the forbidden tree if Adam wasn't with her when she met the serpent .

When there were many trees in the garden of Eden, how would Adam then know the fruit she offered was the forbidden fruit? And then be guilty of Sin because he ate of it if Adam did not know the fruit she had with her was that what God told him not to eat?

This narrative is taken from your position,that Adam was not with Eve when she was talking to the serpent at the forbidden tree.

Just because Eve was deceived that does not mean she was without sin after she ate.
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True.




I have already told you Adam was with Eve when she gave him the fruit and that Adam ate after Eve ate.
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 I posted Genesis 3.
You said Adam was not with Eve when she met the serpent.



see above.
.
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I did,thank you.
 
posthuman said:
i think you talk like you despise the Lord's chastening.

930 years isn't even one day in the sight of God.

Cain murdered his brother, and his punishment? bad at farming.

tell me more about how unfair you consider God to be lol
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The truth always hurts at first m.

But there's a famous saying
The truth can set you free.

In just nodding of now dreaming about my picnic on the beach tomorrow and I thought about my poor little brother hurting.

My eyes are all glazy now I've got one eye open and one eye closed, with sleepy tears, I wonder if this is how it's suppose to be that brothers should share in there brothers Hurt,
Well you know you know you should pray for your brother's who are imprisoned,

Have a nice rest brother, let the dust settle now and when the morning star rises again I'll chat then m
 
posthuman said:
God placed him into what He calls a deep sleep. it is in Genesis the first mention of the term.

here's 54 more


  1. Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
  2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
  3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
  4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
  5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
  6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
  7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
  8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
  9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
  10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
  11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
  12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
  13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
  14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
  15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
  16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
  17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
  18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
  19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
  20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
  21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
  22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
  23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
  24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
  25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
  26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
  27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
  28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
  29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
  30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
  31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
  32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
  33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
  34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
  35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
  36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
  37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”
Click to expand...


Sorry...
Not one verse of the many you cited uses, "deep" sleep.

If it were death?
The need to use "deep" would have been silly.

Here is a translation translated from the Hebrew with accuracy in mind.

And the 'Lord God'/'Jehovah Elohiym'​
caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam,​
and while he kept on sleeping, He seized/took one of his ribs,​
and closed up the flesh instead thereof ​

Deep sleep is simply a deep sleep.
Like someone today going under surgery.

If you want to argue over this point?
I would suggest...

"Wake up."
 
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