Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[GWH]

You turn your dark behavior and claim others are guilty of it?


You judged a highly educated man who knows more about scripture, particularly the New Testament,than you do.
Or me,or anyone here. You dismissed anything he may have to say because he identified now as an atheist,or agnostic in some matters. And you have no idea of why. I do. As does God.

You imply his change make his decades long tenure as a professor of New Testament studies,invalid.

You clearly demonstrated you know nothing about his teaching credibility itself because you judged him unworthy of respect or trust as a NT professor. And this due to your dismissing all that because of the A word.

And you demonstrated you know nothing about the Gospel.

Not in just how you behave. But also in the fact you actually don't know what it means to be in Christ,or Christ in you.

And this due to how you think Bart Ehrman, a "former" Evangelical Christian, now identifying as atheist and agnostic , though you don't know why, must then preclude Christ still knowing his name.

How you behave,flipping to the darkness when some topic or someones opinion isn't to your liking, speaks volumes.

I thank God for your nominal example.

As a truthseeker I would appreciate you sharing a few points that you judge worthy of respect by the professor,
so I can understand what the heck you are impressed by.

 

[GWH]

Nice idea that about the free will but what of the unsaved ?

Do they do the same so they ?

What in the world did you just mean?!

 

[Blain]

I can see that this thread has everyone at each others throats again..... Lets all remember to be civil

As for the topic at hand well the scriptures say we are either a slave to sin or to Christ there is no mention of an in between

 

[Jordon]

[

What in the world did you just mean?!

well Jesus said those who love me will be free indeed

Who the lord sets free will be free indeed

Well what about those who don't love God

 

[Jordon]

I can see that this thread has everyone at each others throats again..... Lets all remember to be civil

As for the topic at hand well the scriptures say we are either a slave to sin or to Christ there is no mention of an in between

no not everyone only the people who refuse to accept the truth are being cruel from where I stand anyway.

 

[Blain]

no not everyone only the people who refuse to accept the truth are being cruel from where I stand anyway.

It seems to me that truth is dependent on the perspective of people.
I have been going through the thread and whatever scripture is presented there is always someone who either denies it or says that it says something else and also each side of the debate has shown mean or snarky remarks not very Christian l;ike

But anyways it should be a simple matter to debunk or prove if truth is truly being presented and each side believes they hold the truth while rejecting the other view so really whatever this truth is seems to depend on the person and if no one is willing to admit they may be wrong and actually learn instead of bickering back and forth then maybe this thread wouldn't be so hectic

Here is my take I agree with @Magenta on this subject because the scriptures clearly state we are either slaves to sin or to Christ there is no mention of free will in the bible as far as I know and if I am wrong I am willing to admit it and accept it if the scriptures show it to be the case but I don't think there is any verse like that

 

[reneweddaybyday]

yep and the mystery is was Abraham chosen

so ... no verse wherein God stated he imputed faith to Abraham?
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

well you know was Adam imputed with faith right after the fall ?

Scripture please ... chapter and verse ... thanks.

That was the question, we where not taking about Abraham's but a pricked conscience can make a person express faith and it's gets counted unto him, which I believe I told you last week

Scripture tells us that righteousness is imputed.

you have stated that faith is imputed ... I am asking for a verse which indicates faith is imputed.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath which went against the will of his people

Because his people saw that it was an offence to work on a Saturday

So did the lord go against there will

again ... have you considered the fact that the people had placed a construct of their own making above the truth of God's Word concerning working on the sabbath?

Matthew 12:9-13

9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.


The man stretched forth his hand when the Lord Jesus Christ told him to stretch it forth.

When the Lord Jesus Christ healed the man, did He act against the will of the man? The man could have refused to stretch his hand out and he would have missed out on the blessing.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

counted means imputed

yep.
.

 

[Doll]

As a truthseeker I would appreciate you sharing a few points that you judge worthy of respect by the professor,
so I can understand what the heck you are impressed by.

Read his teachings regarding the New Testament and judge for yourself.

 

[Doll]

Who would that be pray tell? Chronister perhaps?
I know that you hate the man's guts.

I consider him one of the finest bible teachers of this present age IMO.
His analytical genius is second to none.

Agreed.

Have you watched the debates she has with Dan Wallace?
Classics.

 

[Rufus]

in this matter you have your private opinion, but i have the Word of God.

Proverbs 3:11-12​

despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of His correction: ​

for whom the LORD loveth He correcteth; even as a father the son in whom He delighteth.​

​

Scripture does not curse Adam our forefather, neither does God.

Proverbs 20:20 ​

Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.​

Do yourself a favor and do a key word study! The key word is DROVE...and see how it's used in scripture. It's never used with reference to God's friends, saints, covenant people, God-fearers, etc.

Furthermore, if the ejection of THE MAN from the Garden was an act of God chastening "saint" Adam , then why wasn't Eve included in God's remarks in Gen 3:22-24? Didn't Eve sin? Didn't God also love her just as much as you think He did Adam? If so, why didn't God include Eve the sinner in the above text? Her absence is as conspicuous as Adam's absence in Gen 3:15 is. If fact, one could easily contrast A&E in the post-fall narrative. And this shouldn't come as a big surprise to anyone since the Adam is always contrasted with the Last Adam in scripture! Would you prefer being favorably compared to the Last Adam or consistently contrasted with Him? Or do you think that being contrasted with Christ is not a big deal?

 

[Rufus]

Genesis 3:22

who is God talking to? to whom does He command, "Behold!"...?

there aren't many choices.

1. Himself?
2. the animals?
3. the angels?

door number 3, m8

We finally agree! Or to get even more identity-specific: God's divine heavenly council, as the late Dr. Michael Hauser put it!

Also, many professing Christians believe that answer would be number 1 above! The Father (?) is addressing the other two persons of the godhead. But that interpretation doesn't make sense!

 

[Jordon]

It seems to me that truth is dependent on the perspective of people.
I have been going through the thread and whatever scripture is presented there is always someone who either denies it or says that it says something else and also each side of the debate has shown mean or snarky remarks not very Christian l;ike

But anyways it should be a simple matter to debunk or prove if truth is truly being presented and each side believes they hold the truth while rejecting the other view so really whatever this truth is seems to depend on the person and if no one is willing to admit they may be wrong and actually learn instead of bickering back and forth then maybe this thread wouldn't be so hectic

Here is my take I agree with @Magenta on this subject because the scriptures clearly state we are either slaves to sin or to Christ there is no mention of free will in the bible as far as I know and if I am wrong I am willing to admit it and accept it if the scriptures show it to be the case but I don't think there is any verse like that

ok thanks for your intake.
Well it's hundreds of times searching my heart asking the lord to search my heart and then seeing hundreds of truths either rejected or not even acknowledged sir, and you know sir out of 500 or so posts I've posted here with knowledge of the lord that's come from my life time walk with the lord and beautiful kind people.

I've posted lots of times to lift peoples spirits, or to make them feal welcome,

I don't know how any unsaved person who is a slave to sin is free, neither does he have free will to choose to be saved God has to choose him

And really to much emphasis is being put on unsaved because without him they can do nothing.

All the unsaved have going for them his breath of life keeping them alive physically and a prick in there conscience from God.

That's it that's the only way the unsaved can express faith is through there conscience being pricked sir, that's it.

It's called enabling grace to because not only are they a slave to sin there also held ransom to death, which is satans ransom.

So they need to listen to the prick sir the enabling grace.

Why should freewill offend a Christian sir ?

You know whom the lords sets free will be free indeed.


How can a Christian become offended by thinking he has no free will ? Or become offended by an unsaved person having no free will ?

The word is ludicrous sir that's the word

 

[Jordon]

Scripture please ... chapter and verse ... thanks.





Scripture tells us that righteousness is imputed.

you have stated that faith is imputed ... I am asking for a verse which indicates faith is imputed.
.

no I haven't said these things and I can't be bothered to argue with you, if I have stated that then it wasn't meant,

a discussion about being clothed in righteousness had been discussed, I asked the question was he clothed in faith to was it imputed to, as the discussion was like a bit mad to be honest

I then asked if he was mputed with faith to, it's called wondering what in world people are talking about.

It's like you to, who can't even acknowledge that God can go against the will of his people.

 

[Jordon]

so ... no verse wherein God stated he imputed faith to Abraham?
.

so ... no verse wherein God stated he imputed faith to Abraham?
.

so yep just like every other time you fail to answer a question, like you've done here, it's been brought to my attention your a man is that right ? As your profile says your a women ?

Would just like to know as I've been treating you with respect

So anyway here's the verse anyway

God chose Abraham


The Call of Abram
12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you.

 

[Blain]

ok thanks for your intake.
Well it's hundreds of times searching my heart asking the lord to search my heart and then seeing hundreds of truths either rejected or not even acknowledged sir, and you know sir out of 500 or so posts I've posted here with knowledge of the lord that's come from my life time walk with the lord and beautiful kind people.

I've posted lots of times to lift peoples spirits, or to make them feal welcome,

I don't know how any unsaved person who is a slave to sin is free, neither does he have free will to choose to be saved God has to choose him

And really to much emphasis is being put on unsaved because without him they can do nothing.

All the unsaved have going for them his breath of life keeping them alive physically and a prick in there conscience from God.

That's it that's the only way the unsaved can express faith is through there conscience being pricked sir, that's it.

It's called enabling grace to because not only are they a slave to sin there also held ransom to death, which is satans ransom.

So they need to listen to the prick sir the enabling grace.

Why should freewill offend a Christian sir ?

You know whom the lords sets free will be free indeed.


How can a Christian become offended by thinking he has no free will ? Or become offended by an unsaved person having no free will ?

The word is ludicrous sir that's the word

The natural man does not comprehend the things of the spirit nor does he see it as anything other than foolish so the idea that one can freely choose salvation doesn't make sense to me
It is true that we are set free from being slaves to sin but then we are called slaves to Christ so you see the scriptures to me at least do not seem to imply a free will

 

[Jordon]

The natural man does not comprehend the things of the spirit nor does he see it as anything other than foolish so the idea that one can freely choose salvation doesn't make sense to me
It is true that we are set free from being slaves to sin but then we are called slaves to Christ so you see the scriptures to me at least do not seem to imply a free will

And what you've wrote should be the end of it, but its not.
You know why it's not the end of it.
The main reason is that a person not having any free will goes against many people beliefs of certain doctrines.

That's what's going on here sir.

A person not having any free will in there unsaved condition demolishes quite a few doctrines that many people have come to live by, and some very popular. Ones to.

That's what's going on,

 

[Magenta]

You turn your dark behavior and claim others are guilty of it?

You judged a highly educated man who knows more about scripture, particularly the New Testament,than you do.
Or me,or anyone here. You dismissed anything he may have to say because he identified now as an atheist,or agnostic in some matters. And you have no idea of why. I do. As does God.

You imply his change make his decades long tenure as a professor of New Testament studies,invalid.

You clearly demonstrated you know nothing about his teaching credibility itself because you judged him unworthy of respect or trust as a NT professor. And this due to your dismissing all that because of the A word.

And you demonstrated you know nothing about the Gospel.

Not in just how you behave. But also in the fact you actually don't know what it means to be in Christ,or Christ in you.

And this due to how you think Bart Ehrman, a "former" Evangelical Christian, now identifying as atheist and agnostic , though you don't know why, must then preclude Christ still knowing his name.

How you behave,flipping to the darkness when some topic or someones opinion isn't to your liking, speaks volumes.

I thank God for your nominal example.

I wonder why you feel you need to come against me so strongly with all your false accusations and shamefully
graceless aggression simply because I caution people against following an apostate atheist, especially in light
of things Jesus said, which I have already posted to you but which you choose to ignore. But I do not expect the
truth from you on this matter, as you have already shown yourself to be a liar, and a repeat offender at that.