Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Well...I have a newsflash for you: ALL my translations (which number about 12 or so) say otherwise. I'm supposed to believe that all those various teams of language scholars got it wrong over all these years?

To whom did Paul address his Roman's epistle: To everyone in the world or to the saints?

They wrote into what they wanted. This is a close literal translation:

For I say by the grace being given to me, to every one being among you, to not be high-minded above what you must think; but to think to be of a sound mind; to each as God apportioned a measure of faith. Romans 12:3​

 

[Rufus]

God's Kingdom works on the seedtime harvest principle.

Mark 4:26
the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

Gal 6:7,8 tells us that if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall reap corruption

As such those who sin and don't confess / repent to come back to the Lord will reap the devil's reward

This is because hell was created for satan and his angels (Matthew 25:41)

Even though Jesus paid the price for people to be able to escape hell, if they live in sin rather then abide in Christ they will get the reward of their father the devil and will spend eternity suffering with him in the eternal flames which are never quenched.

Those that cannot grasp how the Kingdom of God functions will not be unable to understand.

Little children can understand, but the adults not so much View attachment 280072

Even all the Einsteins in the world would not be able to make any sense out of what I highlighted in red.

 

[lrs68]

You've done a great job in convincing yourself of your own lie.

I suppose when Paul wrote EVERY MAN that the Reformed has proclaimed that means a special kind of world and not the entire population of MAN?

I'll be perfectly honest with you here. The only people I have ever met who proclaimed there's a special world that doesn't mean the entire world rode the SHORT BUS to school.

Your beliefs are becoming eerily similar to those from the short bus.

 

[Rufus]

They wrote into what they wanted. This is a close literal translation:

For I say by the grace being given to me, to every one being among you, to not be high-minded above what you must think; but to think to be of a sound mind; to each as God apportioned a measure of faith. Romans 12:3​

So.... all those different teams of scholars over the years conspired to lie? But the ones who put together your favored translation were all as honest as the day is long, heh? And pray tell: What translation are you using, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Rufus]

I suppose when Paul wrote EVERY MAN that the Reformed has proclaimed that means a special kind of world and not the entire population of MAN?

I'll be perfectly honest with you here. The only people I have ever met who proclaimed there's a special world that doesn't mean the entire world rode the SHORT BUS to school.

Your beliefs are becoming eerily similar to those from the short bus.

The Gr. term "kosmos" (world) has at least 8 different meanings, O Simple One! And I thought we were discussing Rom 12:3 anyway?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The real issue is what Scripture says of the natural, unregenerated man

The "real issue" is what Scripture says of itself:

Proverbs 4:20-22 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

Psalm 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
.

 

[Rufus]

They wrote into what they wanted. This is a close literal translation:

For I say by the grace being given to me, to every one being among you, to not be high-minded above what you must think; but to think to be of a sound mind; to each as God apportioned a measure of faith. Romans 12:3​

What makes you think that the team of scholars who put together your favored [apparently SECRET] translation didn't do the same thing? Why don't you reveal to us what translation you use?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Answer my question first!

which question do you want me to answer first!
.

 

[Rufus]

The "real issue" is what Scripture says of itself:

Proverbs 4:20-22 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

Psalm 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
.

Too bad that the writer of those various psalms above limited the quickening power of the Word to themselves as believers.

Even Prov 4 requires that people attend, incline, keep, find and not depart from the words Solomon wrote. All of these verbs presume that the hearers of God's word have a heart to do such things -- which clearly FOOLS do not have!

 

[Rufus]

which question do you want me to answer first!
.

Are you one of God's elect?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Too bad that the writer of those various psalms above limited the quickening power of the Word to themselves as believers.

Even Prov 4 requires that people attend, incline, keep, find and not depart from the words Solomon wrote. All of these verbs presume that the hearers of God's word have a heart to do such things -- which clearly FOOLS do not have!

does your belief change God's Word from being a living word? ... if so, that would be amazing!!!
.

 

[Karlon]

yes. bench press 100 pounds 25 times while praying to strengthen your free will!!! nyukyunknyuk.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Are you one of God's elect?

if the Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord in your life, you are ...

dead in trespasses and sins; you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience; you live according to the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and you are by nature a child of wrath ...

which is why I asked you if Jesus Christ was Lord in your life ... which you have thus far refused to answer.

Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So.... all those different teams of scholars over the years conspired to lie? But the ones who put together your favored translation were all as honest as the day is long, heh? And pray tell: What translation are you using, if you don't mind me asking?

That is from the Apostolic Bible Polyglot, which is an interlinear with a fairly literal translation. You can buy it, view it online, or view it in some bible software that have the module (which is what I do).

 

[Rufus]

if the Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord in your life, you are ...

dead in trespasses and sins; you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience; you live according to the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and you are by nature a child of wrath ...

which is why I asked you if Jesus Christ was Lord in your life ... which you have thus far refused to answer.

Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
.

I didn't ask you if Jesus Christ is Lord of your life. I asked you if you're one of God's chosen ones, i.e. his elect.

 

[Rufus]

That is from the Apostolic Bible Polyglot, which is an interlinear with a fairly literal translation. You can buy it, view it online, or view it in some bible software that have the module (which is what I do).

A translation that was put together by ONE translator!? Talk about putting all your eggs into one basket -- not to mention your implicit trust in one solitary man!

 

[Rufus]

does your belief change God's Word from being a living word? ... if so, that would be amazing!!!
.

God's Word is living in hearts God has efficaciously renewed.

 

[sawdust]

The problem with FWT, is the belief that a dead man can somehow claw his way back to God!

That's not true. The problem with the reformed position is they think the soul is inherently corrupt and therefore cannot desire life. But the corruption is inherently in the flesh, not the soul. Just because a man lives in darkness doesn't mean he is blind, it means he needs the light. Grace provides that light and does so from the time a man is born into this world. Those who see the light and desire it, are drawn to it like a moth to a flame. They have no idea where it is leading them they only know it is what they prefer over the darkness.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

A translation that was put together by ONE translator!? Talk about putting all your eggs into one basket -- not to mention your implicit trust in one solitary man!

In the format he created it's easy to check what words mean and IMO put together a better sense of what the text is actually saying rather than trust what theologians create, who have their own biases and many aren't even beleivers. I don't agree with his translation of every word; for instance he uses favor instead of grace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That's not true. The problem with the reformed position is they think the soul is inherently corrupt and therefore cannot desire life. But the corruption is inherently in the flesh, not the soul. Just because a man lives in darkness doesn't mean he is blind, it means he needs the light. Grace provides that light and does so from the time a man is born into this world. Those who see the light and desire it, are drawn to it like a moth to a flame. They have no idea where it is leading them they only know it is what they prefer over the darkness.

And thus it is written

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. John 6:45​