Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

Warning, all FWers should stop at this point and read no further!

I Found a lot of truth in these words:

The apple does not produce itself, it does not sustain its own existence; it contributes nothing to its becoming an apple, being an apple or remaining an apple, for it is a product. The apple remains an apple only by that which was given to it by the tree. The apple is not an apple because of what it is, but because of what it was made to be. It was the tree, and not the apple that determined what it would be, for an apple tree never produces oranges. The apple is a product of something else over which it has no control. Something else brings it into being and sustains its life. The apple simply gets a ‘free ride’. An apple is something that something else has produced. To say the apple contributed in some way to its being an apple, or remaining an apple, is to only reveal one’s lunacy. It is to say that an apple can choose what it wants to be, or that a dog can choose what it wants to be. The dog, the apple or the saved man HAD NO CHOICE as to what they would be, AT ALL! Dogs are created, apples are created and the saved man is created a new creature in Christ by God according to the will of God. Nothing, and no one has any say in what they were created to be, nor do they remain what they are because of what they are, but only by what they were predetermined and created to be. The apple is solely a product of the tree from which it hangs. The apple has no right to receive any glory for its existence, for it is solely a product of that which deserves all the glory, the tree. So too, a Christian, a born again new creature created in Christ Jesus receives no glory for what he is, for all the glory is rightly and solely due to the One Who created and sustains him: Almighty God.

**MDB**

Amen!

Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 explain that we end up being the resemblance of Christ Whom we were chosen to be in the likeness of.

He died and created Sanctification that when we're saved we become a new creation that exemplifies Christ. We become what Christ created.

We are not Christ but what Christ created.

 

[Cameron143]

Thats not Grace, that's common providence and God taking care of His creation, He is still going to dam the vessels of wrath, non elect whom He hates Ps 5:5-6

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Notice the writer doesnt say thou hatest iniquity, though that is true, but He hateth the workers of it, the very person

You should read the end of Matthew 5.

 

[brightfame52]

You should read the end of Matthew 5.

i have

 

[Cameron143]

i have

Then you know that God has His children exercising grace towards all, particularly those who hate God and His people...that ye may be children of your Father...

 

[Genez]

You should read the end of Matthew 5.

Better yet... You should post it here.

Lazy posters produce a pain of their own for others.

 

[Cameron143]

Better yet... You should post it here.

Lazy posters produce a pain of their own for others.

And you were doing so good to this point.

 

[Genez]

And you were doing so good to this point.

I looked it up myself.
It left me with nothing to discuss, because I would have to post what you did not, only to find that it was another verse you were thinking on.

It's lazy....
If you don't believe me?
Read Joshua 10.

 

[Genez]

And you were doing so good to this point.

So where are my doggy biscuits for when I was doing well?

 

[brightfame52]

Then you know that God has His children exercising grace towards all, particularly those who hate God and His people...that ye may be children of your Father...

God doesnt give Grace to the non elect, Grace is strictly for the remnant election of grace, and the rest are blinded. God can take someone's life, kill them, but not His children, they dont have the right. You cant box God in on the level of His creatures, God isnt under any Law, we are . The enemies God commands His children to Love, He might hate them, and has determined to punish them for eternity, He may despise their image like here Ps 73:20

As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Does that give you or I the right to despise someone like that ? No

 

[Cameron143]

I looked it up myself.
It left me with nothing to discuss, because I would have to post what you did not, only to find that it was another verse you were thinking on.

It's lazy....
If you don't believe me?
Read Joshua 10.

If you actually practiced loving others you would attempt to cover what you perceive to be other's offenses. You would rather you yourself were thought of poorly that they would not experience that.
This is why Jesus warned about planks. Truly hope this helps you. Grace and peace.

 

[Cameron143]

So where are my doggy biscuits for when I was doing well?

Wouldn't you rather have your reward be above?

 

[Cameron143]

God doesnt give Grace to the non elect, Grace is strictly for the remnant election of grace, and the rest are blinded. God can take someone's life, kill them, but not His children, they dont have the right. You cant box God in on the level of His creatures, God isnt under any Law, we are . The enemies God commands His children to Love, He might hate them, and has determined to punish them for eternity, He may despise their image like here Ps 73:20

As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Does that give you or I the right to despise someone like that ? No

You aren't familiar with common grace?

 

[Rufus]

Unless you can qualify to die for the sins of the world?
We are not measured against the deeds of Christ, who only walked on earth for three years of ministry.

God will measure your works according to the capacity for life He grants you.

You may walk the earth for forty years of being saved?

Forty years of doing works?
You believe Jesus did all the same works God will bring your way, that Jesus squeezed into just three?

Your works are uniquely just for you, assigned by God!

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​

which God prepared in advance for us to do.​

Ephesians 2:10

So what his ministry was only 3-1/2 years or so? Did not Jesus keep the entire law perfectly all the time in every circumstance? Did not the Christ tell us plainly that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them (Mat 5:17)? In fact, I'll go even one better: Christ fulfilled the entire Law flawlessly when He went to the Cross!

You knowledge of the Word is as shallow as a mud puddle.

 

[Rufus]

FTFY!
.

Now all you have left to fix is your own dementia.

 

[Rufus]

How then is God gracious by allowing the sun to shine on the just and the unjust? How can the psalmist say God is merciful to all?

Common grace is certainly taught throughout scripture. In fact, all living creatures experience such grace! How would God sustain the world -- yea even the universe apart from his gracious sustaining power? And if He didn't sustain the universe every second of every day, how would He be able to save the elect who need to be born from above in time and space? Does He not send rain and sun in their seasons so that the earth can produce food? Doesn't He feed the animals? Rather, I'm talking about saving grace -- covenantal grace -- personal and particular grace, as opposed to universal (common) grace. I'm speaking specifically in terms of the gracious New Covenant promises. And only God's elect are given such grace solely on the merits of Christ their Federal Head. And assuredly, one of His attributes was humility, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rufus]

Amen!

Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 explain that we end up being the resemblance of Christ Whom we were chosen to be in the likeness of.

He died and created Sanctification that when we're saved we become a new creation that exemplifies Christ. We become what Christ created.

We are not Christ but what Christ created.

You do realize that by saying that you're implying that salvation is a supernatural act of God every bit as much as the physical universe was when He created it? Are you taking God's great work of salvation out of the natural realm and placing it in the supernatural?

 

[cv5]

How can nothing go over someone's head - but that demonstrates you're short in biblical comprehension

Your attempts at exegesis are.....superficial, fail to address the meaning and intent of the original languages, are mostly one verse wonders out of context. This is hardly an exhaustive list of deficiencies, they go on and on.

You are swinging and missing continuously its really quite embarrassing to observe day in and day out.

And the thing is, top drawer resources and legit scholars have been provided. But rejected with contempt.

Too bad so sad. Sorry fake sorry.

 

[cv5]

Common grace is certainly taught throughout scripture. In fact, all living creatures experience such grace! How would God sustain the world -- yea even the universe apart from his gracious sustaining power? And if He didn't sustain the universe every second of every day, how would He be able to save the elect who need to be born from above in time and space? Does He not send rain and sun in their seasons so that the earth can produce food? Doesn't He feed the animals? Rather, I'm talking about saving grace -- covenantal grace -- personal and particular grace, as opposed to universal (common) grace. I'm speaking specifically in terms of the gracious New Covenant promises. And only God's elect are given such grace solely on the merits of Christ their Federal Head. And assuredly, one of His attributes was humility, wouldn't you agree?

Covenantal grace? This does not exist in the pre-birth lottery Reformed system.

 

[Cameron143]

Common grace is certainly taught throughout scripture. In fact, all living creatures experience such grace! How would God sustain the world -- yea even the universe apart from his gracious sustaining power? And if He didn't sustain the universe every second of every day, how would He be able to save the elect who need to be born from above in time and space? Does He not send rain and sun in their seasons so that the earth can produce food? Doesn't He feed the animals? Rather, I'm talking about saving grace -- covenantal grace -- personal and particular grace, as opposed to universal (common) grace. I'm speaking specifically in terms of the gracious New Covenant promises. And only God's elect are given such grace solely on the merits of Christ their Federal Head. And assuredly, one of His attributes was humility, wouldn't you agree?

I have no problem with every grace coming as a result of Christ's merits for the Christian. I was merely pointing out that God is gracious to all.

 

[Rufus]

Covenantal grace? This does not exist in the pre-birth lottery Reformed system.

It exists in the bible! Are you suggesting that God's covenant promises He made with Abraham were something less than gracious? Same question for the unilateral New Covenant promises... No divine blessing flow from either of these redemptive covenants?