Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Matthew 7 v 17-18, Luke 6 v 4a and from John 15 v 4-5 ~ Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. Apart from Me you can do nothing.

 

[DeanM]

I see the Benjamin Button effect is still active!

Youngest great grand for now. Another on the way

 

[Genez]

But logic does not guide these FW folks. Flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. They deny it.

You keep painting us into a BOX OF YOUR OWN SUBJECTIVE BELIEF.


The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14

 

[Magenta]

Those whose theology rests on putting confidence in the flesh cannot imagine not putting confidence in their flesh.

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)

 

[Genez]

Those whose theology rests on putting confidence in the flesh cannot imagine not putting confidence in their flesh.)

That is your chosen erroneous conclusion that makes it easy for you to shut your mind and plug your ears.

 

[cv5]

That is your chosen erroneous conclusion that makes it easy for you to shut your mind and plug your ears.

Chosen....yes. A righteous choice?
No, I don't think so. I'm quite convinced of the contrary.

 

[Magenta]

Peace, be still; Lay all your worries down. Be still, oh my soul, For our God, is in control. And if God is for us, Then whom shall I fear? And our God is for us; So lay down, be still. He is God. Hallelujah, our God has overcome. Hallelujah, our Lord, Jesus Christ, has won.

 

[cv5]

When God convinces you of something, you do not need to decide to believe it regardless of all your rabbit trail obfuscations.

Your willingness to deceive is surely epic but you do not fool me.

Is that the latest Calvinist philosophic trope? "decide to believe"?

It's as ridiculous as the rest.

 

[cv5]

You keep painting us into a BOX OF YOUR OWN SUBJECTIVE BELIEF.

Birthed in error, sustained by ignorance.

 

[posthuman]

my question -

​

2 Corinthians 3:15-16​

But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.​

​

Who puts the veil over the heart, and is able to take it away?

 

[Magenta]

my question -

​

2 Corinthians 3:15-16​

But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.​

​

Who puts the veil over the heart, and is able to take it away?

John 12:38b-40 “Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”

 

[Magenta]

Flesh serves the law of sin, for the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! Because everyone born of God overcomes the world. In the mixed up unBiblical theology, of the free will crowd , man overcomes the world with his wicked heart and is then born again.

 

[cv5]

my question -

​

2 Corinthians 3:15-16​

But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.​

​

Who puts the veil over the heart, and is able to take it away?

The better question:
Why and how were 3000 Jews saved in Acts 2 and untold millions throughout the ages to this present day?

Answering this question will resolve yours. Gods OFFER is still pending and FREELY given, and many are they who CHOOSE to RECEIVE it in good FAITH.

"Already believing" not a prerequisite BTW. Never has been, never will be.

 

[Magenta]

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart hates God, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

 

[sawdust]

I was replying to Magenta's nonsense ... I showed her that Jordon asked

"your talking about the free will of the flesh"​

you replied to Jordon:

"There is no such thing as "free will of the flesh"."​

Magenta in her carnal reply to you:

​

I merely pointed out to Magenta that she does the same thing with Scripture.
.

Ah, ok my bad then. I have Magenta on ignore because her pictures slow down loading of pages and I find them difficult to read as the bright colours hurt my eyes so I did not see her comment in it all.

Sorry if I sounded confused.

 

[sawdust]

there's experimental evidence that we make certain decisions in our subconscious before our conscious mind is aware of them, and then backwards-justify them consciously. we also clearly inadvertently physically react to things, sometimes contrary to our own conscious will.

but its also true that we wrestle in our minds over other decisions for sometimes quite a long time, making them only after much thinking.

I have no doubt about that sort of thinking but my argument was that thinking and will is a function of the soul (or spirit if some prefer) not our bodies and that physical reaction to things contrary to our will is, imo, proof our bodies function apart from our will. Of course this doesn't mean that we have absolutely no control whatsoever over our bodies, I gave holding one's breath as an example, but ultimately our bodies will react to it's surroundings in self service even when rational thought says otherwise as in drowning.

 

[Magenta]

I merely pointed out to Magenta that she does the same thing with Scripture.

You entered this thread breathing out false accusations about me and from the looks of it you have never stopped.

But not to worry. I rarely see all your lies and carnal replies. I have zero interest in engaging such as a matter of course.

 

[Magenta]

What I mean is I think what I stated is what Paul states elsewhere and that we have to draw upon his other writings. I think you're treating Titus3 as if Paul hasn't taught us anything else.

That is exactly how you folks act when we harmonize parallel verses together in a way that exemplifies a unified Biblical message.

 

[Magenta]

What I mean is I think what I stated is what Paul states elsewhere and that we have to draw upon his other writings. I think you're treating Titus3 as if Paul hasn't taught us anything else.

And also, that is not what you claimed at first, saying you had simply added a verse, when you added
a verse and inserted something else into it. So you come across looking dishonest, and rightfully so.

 

[Magenta]

The gospel is spoken and it is either believed or not believed.

People have to hear first. Not everybody hears. Jesus said so. You should believe what Jesus says over your carnal thinking.