Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Genez's idea of "total depravity" is that Adam since bruised his knee slightly when he Fell. This applies to his progeny as well.

He understands depravity and recognizes that God must do something about it before man believes. That's why I don't understand why he sides with those who don't.

 

[Rufus]

You missed the latest "natural man" lecture provided by @studier?

Pity that you ignored this fine example of "advanced" study of the text and it's intended meaning.

It pretty much quashes every determinist pretention on the matter of "natural man" there ever was.....

Shirely U. Jest! Besides, see my 15,716! Anyone and Everyone who rejects the gospel is a fool.

 

[Rufus]

He understands depravity and recognizes that God must do something about it before man believes. That's why I don't understand why he sides with those who don't.

Yeah...but whatever it is "that God must do something about" -- He only does that after the response of faith by the person's "freewill". Genez is jerking everyone's chain. Typical example of someone when he pays mere lip service to God or even to a biblical doctrine.

 

[Rufus]

Regeneration cannot and does not precede faith/belief.

Scripture says so.

Why can't it?

 

[Cameron143]

Yeah...but whatever it is "that God must do something about" -- He only does that after the response of faith by the person's "freewill". Genez is jerking everyone's chain. Typical example of someone when he pays mere lip service to God or even to a biblical doctrine.

No. He believes God must first stifle the effect of the flesh of an individual allowing for a freewill choice.

 

[NightTwister]

That is one of their two ex cathedra dogmas... meaning, mandated for the Catholic to believe.

If you think about it, it is actually closely tied to the other one of the two, the Assumption of Mary.

Since why would she die if she had no sin? Except of course none of it is Biblical and cannot be supported with Scripture either.

You might think if the RCC were to make anything mandatory to believe it would have to do with Jesus...

But, nope. Their idolatry does not allow for that.

Very much in the same way the idolatry of FWers despises God's sovereignty.

It's funny that as much as they hate RCC doctrine, they make some of their own from the same playbook.

 

[Rufus]

I think I will just put [myself] on ignore.

FTFY. And it would be the most intelligent thing you have ever said.

 

[DeanM]

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[Rufus]

After you are saved and filled with the Holy Ghost this is when this happens according to Paul.

But remember the Holy Ghost wrote the Bible.

The Holy Ghost said we must Repent before being filled with the Holy Ghost.

Rubbish! Human beings wrote the bible. The Holy Spirit is the Author who inspired what the prophets and apostles wrote.

 

[Rufus]

Everyone pursues the unknown and the idea of God because it's how God created us. We may not believe or understand why we need God to pursue Him for the right thing like salvation but we pursue the idea something bigger than all of us and everything must exist.

Tribal Cultures, Asian Cultures, going back to the Egyptian Culture we see people always believed in some form of god. We even see people who believed in other gods eventually join the true God throughout the Tanakh like Rahab, Ruth, there's actually a list in every Scroll showing people seeking out Yahvew who were not Hebrew. So we know it's possible because we have the Old Testament to prove it.

And God didn't bestow saving grace upon anyone in the OT? Just because Gentiles sought the Jewish Messiah out doesn't mean God wasn't effectually working in those Gentiles' hearts.

 

[Rufus]

As I've said recently, the more I deal with this determinist tradition and its erroneous interpretations, the more I'm against it. It's really foul.

What's truly foul is your false gospel that you hug to your bosom!

 

[Rufus]

But we also know Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Noah's family weren't in that category so clearly it's not meaning all people.

So what made the spiritual difference between the people mentioned above and the rest of the human race that was utterly wicked?

 

[Rufus]

lrs68 said:


Amen!

The Bible mentions specific names but we know that Egyptian people went with the Hebrew People by their own choice and we know throughout the Tanakh many people did similar.

Prove your assertion with scripture, since you confidently say "but we know..."

P.S. BTW, have you been able, yet, from Rom 1 to discern who Paul's primary audience was? That was something else you claimed to "know".

 

[NightTwister]

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

We know you are but what are we?

 

[Rufus]

But the Bible tells us Enoch chose to seek God and the his son Methuselah and Lamech and Noah followed. So I trust the Torah.

So, what makes you think that those people were not recipients of God's saving grace, such as expressed in Ps 110:3? Oh wait...the Psalms aren't part of the Torah, are they?

 

[Rufus]

adoption being the key word

Can anyone who has never been adopted by God the Father be saved?

 

[Rufus]

It is the manifestation and realization of having been chosen - it is how the Father implements His choices

This guy Dean has zero regard for God's thoughts and his ways, which are infinitely higher and greater than ours. He obviously believes God thinks and acts according to human wisdom.

 

[Rufus]

NightTwister said:


In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a town in Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! -- Luke 1:39-42 ESV

What you quoted here brings to mind these verses penned by David:

Ps 22:9-10
9 Yet you are he who took me from the womb ;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10 On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
ESV

 

[cv5]

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I think you're on to something......

 

[Rufus]

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Some of us are indebted to you for reminding us and personally epitomizing the veracity of this truth. Good job.