Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

God exalts the humble and lowly.

The above truth doesn't negate that men very often exalt men. We have seen quite a bit of this exemplified on this very thread.

1 Samuel 2 v 7-9 ~ The LORD sends poverty and wealth; He humbles and He exalts. He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap. He seats them among princes and bestows on them a throne of honor. For the foundations of the earth are the LORD’s, and upon them He has set the world. He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness; for by his own strength shall no man prevail.

 

[Magenta]

The wicked man boasts in the cravings of his heart; he blesses the greedy and reviles the LORD. In his pride the wicked man does not seek Him; in all his schemes there is no God. Psalm 10 v 3-4 Mocker is the name of the proud and arrogant man - of him who acts with excessive pride. Proverbs 21 v 24 The proud look of man will be humbled, and the loftiness of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. For the Day of the LORD of Hosts will come against all the proud and lofty, against all that is exalted - it will be humbled. Isaiah 2 v 11-12 No flesh may boast before God. 1 Cor 1 v 29

 

[Rufus]

nope ... here's what you said, Rufus:





and here's my reply to your nonsense:



.

So, Jewish believers in your world = Jewish non-believers? How could you not understand that Jewish believers = believers in Christ?

 

[Genez]

God exalts the humble and lowly.

The above truth doesn't negate that men very often exalt men. We have seen quite a bit of this exemplified on this very thread.

Ehhh emmm.... Sorry for exalting "Moses?"



You're all over the map.

 

[Genez]

So, Jewish believers in your world = Jewish non-believers? How could you not understand that Jewish believers = believers in Christ?

God is preserving unregenerate Jews at present who have not entered into the Church.

He is preserving them for what will take place after the Rapture, and the age of the Jews will be reinstated for the duration of the Tribulation.

You don't know this?

 

[Genez]

Nope. Moses was a man God richly gifted.

Why do you guys always exalt men over God?

Here is one reason why....

Matthew 17:1-3​

​

After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John (the brother of James) and led them up a high mountain ​

where they could be alone.​

​

Jesus’ appearance changed in front of them. His face became as bright as the sun and his clothes as white ​

as light. Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them and were talking with Jesus.​

Something is distorted and wrong with your "exaltation" concept.
It almost sounds weird...

 

[Rufus]

rogerg said:


If not being spiritually dead, then why would anyone have to be spiritually born-again? That which is already alive spiritually would have no need nor could they be born-again - they couldn't be made alive twice being alive at the same time. It would only become possible and necessary should someone be spiritually dead.

[Jhn 3:6 KJV] 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[Jhn 3:7-8 KJV]
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

[Gen 2:17 KJV] 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Rog, you might find this OT mind-blowing passage worthy of deep contemplation and meditation. I know I have.

Ps 87:1-6
87:1 Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm. A song.


He has set his foundation on the holy mountain;
2 the LORD loves the gates of Zion
more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are said of you,
O city of God:
Selah
4 "I will record Rahab and Babylon
among those who acknowledge me —
Philistia too, and Tyre, along with Cush —
and will say, 'This one was born in Zion .'"

5 Indeed, of Zion it will be said,
"This one and that one were born in her,
and the Most High himself will establish her."
6 The LORD will write in the register of the peoples:
"This one was born in Zion ."
NIV

Very quick overview because I have to run.

1. Zion = City of God/ Holy Mountain = God's eternal dwelling place.
2. God loves his His Eternal Holy City more than the Promised Land in temporal reality
3. Notice the mention of all the Gentile believers, also cf. 6a. "peoples" (plural)
4. The note the past tenses in vv. 4c., 5b. and 6b.
5. But also note the future tense in 4c., 5a. and 6a., i.e. "will be said", "will say...", "will write".

The question that is begging to be asked is this: How could these peoples' births that are talked about have happened in the past -- in God's Eternal Holy Dwelling Place!? We all know that the new birth existentially occurs in this age; therefore, I can reach only one conclusion. And it's this: The Psalmist can only be alluding to God's eternal decree regarding his chosen people, since God elected his chosen ones in Christ before the foundation of the world, which means in God's eyes they were as good as born in God's eternal home in Zion in eternity past from where He issued his decree. Also, the Psalmist is expressing this truth from the perspective of the saints' completed redemption in the Eternal New Order. This is the only inescapable conclusion I can reach.

 

[Jordon]

Races? ..What is most unfortunate about this topic is people believing that because they can choose what colour of socks to wear, or whether to have fries or salad with lunch, that man's will is free, when Scripture teaches no such thing, and in fact teaches that man's will is NOT free. But people seem stuck on the idea regardless of what Scripture actually says, and those who oppose what Scripture says proliferate, contradicting and outright denying that which is explicitly articulated, and we have seen several cases where they rewrite verses they do not like, as well. Then there are those too who as soon as you say man's will is not free, jump immediately to, oh, you are saying man is a robot, or man has no will of his own, which is just another misrepresentation and erroneous assumptions blown into false accusations. So we see people who claim to be Christians using their freedom to commit evil. Pretty sad. Even sadder that they rarely repent, and it is a sad fact also that some would rather blaspheme God than ever admit they were wrong... and blaspheme God they do.

Racing in online tournaments with my real life semi pro racing friends, I've just finished a 100 lap endurance race at Daytona,

Just thought I would pop in for another chat, I wonder sometimes when people don't repent personally to you or don't reply to a real truth, they actually believe deep down in there heart its true, other times they don't because they're right and your wrong, some people are often to prone to being selfish when it comes to sharing God, something just snaps in there head, and there like my God wouldn't do that, your mean, etc. those people are actually more dangerous than most people as they can get quite nasty

It's being told you where chosen that offends the most for some faiths.

I don't see the big issue because all people are chosen after a for-knowing. Which again is only known in him. Whether that's determined before your born doesn't exclude anyone and makes no difference.

Meaning at some point in a persons life they will either be handed over to son or not.






.

 

[Rufus]

God is preserving unregenerate Jews at present who have not entered into the Church.

He is preserving them for what will take place after the Rapture, and the age of the Jews will be reinstated for the duration of the Tribulation.

You don't know this?

But the apostle John was not writing to unregenerate Jews! So, why do you bring a non sequitur into this topic? You don't know who John's first century audience was?

 

[lrs68]

Todays's education in many ways will dumb down a person.

Education does not raise one's IQ.
Moses was a military genius...
A musical genius...
And, a theological genius.
Today's education can not produce another Moses.

Regular people cease being regular once God finds someone whom His grace can be manifested in.

Sampson was a regular person....

He doesn't want facts. I'm sure he patted his back several times in his belief that we're smarter today than yesterday. Little does he know but our modern day trigonometry and calculus comes from the same principles used back then even though he wouldn't be able to identify or quantify sine from tangent or cosine let alone point out the 90° Right Angle without googling, copy, pasting it.

Most people take Daniel's and Paul's references to more knowledge in the sense we're smarter than when in reality it just means we have access to the truth than some prior generations.

 

[Cameron143]

Ehhh emmm.... Sorry for exalting "Moses?"



You're all over the map.

I thought you said only God exalts.

In any case, Moses did have anything he hadn't received. All due to God. Moses, after God trained him in the desert, was the humblest of men. He would tell you the same.

 

[Cameron143]

Here is one reason why....

Matthew 17:1-3​

​

After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John (the brother of James) and led them up a high mountain ​

where they could be alone.​

​

Jesus’ appearance changed in front of them. His face became as bright as the sun and his clothes as white ​

as light. Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them and were talking with Jesus.​

Something is distorted and wrong with your "exaltation" concept.
It almost sounds weird...

When exalting God and not men sounds weird, the problem exists in you.

Did Moses bring himself to the Mount of Transfiguration? Did he make himself the most humble man of his time? Did he lift himself up to be the leader of Israel?

No to all. So why praise Moses? We should take notice of what God has done in Moses and desire God to do the same with us. But all the praise, honor, and glory belongs to God, and God alone.

 

[Rufus]

Here is one reason why....

Matthew 17:1-3​

​

After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John (the brother of James) and led them up a high mountain ​

where they could be alone.​

​

Jesus’ appearance changed in front of them. His face became as bright as the sun and his clothes as white ​

as light. Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them and were talking with Jesus.​

Something is distorted and wrong with your "exaltation" concept.
It almost sounds weird...

So, you exalt the man Moses because he appeared with Christ? Tell me: When God spoke to the three disciples of Christ, who of the three (Moses, Elijah and Christ) did he command the disciples to listen to? And why did God throw a wrecking ball on Peter's plan to build booths for all three?

I understood what lrs68 was saying ... we can do what God tells us to do otherwise God would not give the instruction ... the issue is will we do as God instructs ... will we do what He tells us we can do?
.

Give me chapter and verse, please on what God has told us that we "can do".

 

[Genez]

But the apostle John was not writing to unregenerate Jews! So, why do you bring a non sequitur into this topic? You don't know who John's first century audience was?

I was just making a comment on why God still sees Jews, as Jews... even if at present they do not believe in Jesus Christ.
And, that most importantly, God is not done with the Jews as His chosen people.

 

[Genez]

He doesn't want facts. I'm sure he patted his back several times in his belief that we're smarter today than yesterday. Little does he know but our modern day trigonometry and calculus comes from the same principles used back then even though he wouldn't be able to identify or quantify sine from tangent or cosine let alone point out the 90° Right Angle without googling, copy, pasting it.

Most people take Daniel's and Paul's references to more knowledge in the sense we're smarter than when in reality it just means we have access to the truth than some prior generations.

A camel herder with an IQ of 149, was a genius camel herder just the same.
Placing him in the modern world would simply offer him other details to apply his genius to.

 

[Rufus]

The passage also does not state that God gave Abraham faith and then Abraham believed.

The passage states that God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed what God told him.

And Romans 4 reiterates the Gen 15 passage and makes clear that faith is not works.
.

Do you think Abraham was a God-fearer?

 

[Rufus]

I was just making a comment on why God still sees Jews, as Jews... even if at present they do not believe in Jesus Christ.
And, that most importantly, God is not done with the Jews as His chosen people.

All of that has nothing to do with 1Jn 2:2. Tell me: To whom was John writing his first epistle?

 

[Rufus]

Of course, how else can the determinists elevate and defend their "chosen-ness" it requires removing, explaining away, the very action

which God clearly desires and commends by using horrible hermeneutics and eisegesis.

This means the fallen man retains this ability by God's decree, which is the true sovereignty of God.

Prove what you wrote with chapter and verse, please. Where in scripture is this "decree"?

 

[Genez]

I thought you said only God exalts.

In any case, Moses did have anything he hadn't received. All due to God. Moses, after God trained him in the desert, was the humblest of men. He would tell you the same.

Then... you are not doing well in expressing what you meant by wrongly "exalting Moses."

 

[Rufus]

What is there to repent of? We have personal faith which was given to us as a gift? Is receiving a gift now a sin?

In FWT, it is! And now that we know that God doesn't give grace to all mankind w/o exception, I have to think relying on God's grace that is selectively-given to only the humble will soon become anathema to them, as well. They can't have God "playing favorites", can they?