Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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cv5 said:
An accurate assessment. Making their deity the origin of evil and the most evil of all the evil things he creates.
Utterly unbiblical yes. Appalling at every level yes.

But they prefer this philosophy. Care to venture a guess as to why?
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quite the imagination you and your friend have

Not only is The God we worship a puppet master who pulls strings
But it also it appears your God is a tool and aid in which to condemn people with.

an examination of the heart is needed, I believe for both of you.

But the way in which yourself keeps finding fault in other people, and your friend there, lord of the house, with yourself lord and master, quite clearly there's a huge plank in both your eyes.

It's seems whatever love you may have had for God's children has grown cold. And it seems the only time you find agreement here is when there's some kind of attack going on, have you heard the phrase you can become what you associate with ?.
Well sir I gave no intention of following your example.

The reality of this nature is one that's very much not nice.
And your friend there as well.

And yes I have no problem with my lord pulling my strings and my lord being lord and master. So you tell your friend there, to tell tell satan, nice try but I'm way to clever to fall that one.

And I have no problem in being his vessel either, or as you and your friend would like to say with that wonderful imagination. You both have, is his robot.

Anyway sir I will wipe your dirt of my boots on the way out to.

Oh one last thing sir I do hope you find peace really I do.

But one more thing tell satan to stop attacking Gods children before you write things in the future.

And grow up.
 
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Pilgrimshope said:
What’s that have to do with the verse he showed you plainly saying Jesus died not only for our sins but those of all the world ?
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Nothing. Just like the verse she shared had nothing to do with the verse I shared. So I ignored the verse and continued on with the point I was making.

Do you believe conviction means one is merely informed concerning truth, or that persuasion is included in as well?
 
cv5 said:
"You have the slave to sin and lover of darkness under the power and influence of Satan...who would rather blaspheme God........sick and twisted "

Thar she blows!
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Since verses are being wrenched out of context, might as well add babies are born evil and unable to love to the list. :rolleyes:
 
reneweddaybyday said:
we are all subjected to the influence of satan in this world we live in, but we do not have to be held sway to his influence.
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I agree, yet I disagree! To some degree we are still held sway to his influence. Satan is not at rest with his attacks, and he is very clever in knowing where we are most vulnerable.
Scripture tells us in Rom 7:18-20 that we are in a constant battle to fight against the sin that clings to us. We are in the process of being sanctified. But, we must not be like little children saying “Are we there yet”, but be ever alert in our walk with God.


I guess that is why repentance should not be a one-time thing!
 
Pilgrimshope said:
You guys see god like a puppet master ? He makes us do good or evil ? Then he blames and punishes us for doing the good or evil ?

the bible doesn’t teach a god who’s like that …. But like this

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭
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Not one of us who don't share your position believe as you say in your first paragraph.
You choose an old covenant verse wherein those under the covenant literally were blessed and prospered for obedience and suffered and often died from disobedience to make a claim concerning new covenant people who have passed from death to life. We still have temporal judgment for sin, but we are secure eternally.
 
Cameron143 said:
Interesting verse you chose. It has God saving through His mercy and spiritual renewal by the Holy Spirit, and spiritual life through rebirth or regeneration without consideration for what the individual does. Hmmmmm. Sounds familiar. Wonder why you don't believe it.
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The perfect verse.

They knew what the individual does because they had already trusted in/exercised faith IN Christ Jesus the object of one's faith and then they were regenerated and received the gift of salvation.
 
Jordon said:
Yes sir well not just a puppet master but a Muppet master.

Well at least in your case sir
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Is disrespecting your elders part of your philosophy of dominance, superiority and pride?
I would urge you to consider all of the free will elements here:

This woman came to Jesus of her own free will....she was not dragged kicking and screaming.
Consequently, both love and forgiveness were displayed and both were FREELY GIVEN.

[Luk 7:40 NKJV]
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." So he said, "Teacher, say it."

[Luk 7:41 NKJV]
"There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.

[Luk 7:42 NKJV]
"And when they had nothing with which to repay, he ***freely*** forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"

[Luk 7:43 NKJV]
Simon answered and said, "I suppose the [one] whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."

[Luk 7:44 NKJV]
Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped [them] with the hair of her head.

[Luk 7:45 NKJV]
"You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.

[Luk 7:46 NKJV]
"You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.

[Luk 7:47 NKJV]
"Therefore I say to you, her sins, which [are] many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loves little."

[Luk 7:48 NKJV]
Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

[Luk 7:49 NKJV]
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

[Luk 7:50 NKJV]
Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
 
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Cameron143 said:
Not one of us who don't share your position believe as you say in your first paragraph.
You choose an old covenant verse wherein those under the covenant literally were blessed and prospered for obedience and suffered and often died from disobedience to make a claim concerning new covenant people who have passed from death to life. We still have temporal judgment for sin, but we are secure eternally.
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Those counted as righteous, after exercising faith and trusting in God's plan of salvation were secure eternally in the OT as well.
Conflating individual with the group once again.
 
HeIsHere said:
The perfect verse.

They knew what the individual does because they had already trusted in/exercised faith IN Christ Jesus the object of one's faith and then they were regenerated and received the gift of salvation.
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You have dead people doing live things. Impossible.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Those counted as righteous, after exercising faith and trusting in God's plan of salvation were secure eternally in the OT as well.
Conflating individual with the group once again.
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Sure, but that doesn't change the verse chosen or the explanation given. The particular verse in view was not dealing with salvation, but the terms of the old covenant.
 
HeIsHere said:
Actually, you have living people as zombies, but you can always visit the local grave yard for your next mission trip.
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That's another common mistake your side makes for lack of understanding.

I see you are avoiding my question: is conviction merely concerned with informing, or does it include an aspect of persuasion?
 
cv5 said:
Is disrespecting your elders part of your philosophy of dominance, superiority and pride?
I would urge you to consider all of the free will elements here:

This woman came to Jesus of her own free will....she was not dragged kicking and screaming.
Consequently, both love and forgiveness were displayed and both were FREELY GIVEN.

[Luk 7:40 NKJV]
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." So he said, "Teacher, say it."

[Luk 7:41 NKJV]
"There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.

[Luk 7:42 NKJV]
"And when they had nothing with which to repay, he ***freely*** forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"

[Luk 7:43 NKJV]
Simon answered and said, "I suppose the [one] whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."

[Luk 7:44 NKJV]
Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped [them] with the hair of her head.

[Luk 7:45 NKJV]
"You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.

[Luk 7:46 NKJV]
"You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.

[Luk 7:47 NKJV]
"Therefore I say to you, her sins, which [are] many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, [the same] loves little."

[Luk 7:48 NKJV]
Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

[Luk 7:49 NKJV]
And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

[Luk 7:50 NKJV]
Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
Click to expand...
Yep sir as I said I hope you find peace i really do. As all theses attacks are saying you don't have it much.

But what you must understand mostly sir.

Is because of your cruel words from yourself and friends here in way to many occasions.

I am now unable to share my faith with you.

However sir I'm still happy to share my faith with other people especially those who have have manners in there disagreement.. So go and tell satan nice try but I won't aid him in growing hatred or letting hatred get a hold on me.

Because I will just call out to the lord when I sense that cruel nature.
 
Cameron143 said:
That's another common mistake your side makes for lack of understanding.

I see you are avoiding my question: is conviction merely concerned with informing, or does it include an aspect of persuasion?
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What matters is that .... regeneration does not precede faith in scripture. and since it does not, that means that God has preserved in

fallen man the ability to respond either in a positive manner or negative manner to the power and truth inherent in the Good News of Christ Jesus.

The natural man of your doctrine is basically criminally insane >>> not responsible.
 
Kroogz said:
When was the last time you saw a reformed/calvie/tulip person even mention The Lord Jesus Christ?

The Lord Jesus Christ seems to not be in their vocabulary.

It's the "natural man." .......That is their focus. They completely overlook what the Lord Jesus Christ DID for the "natural man."
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Rereading some parts of this thread, so true!!
 
reneweddaybyday said:
oh yeah ... i've seen that accusation already from more than one ... they think they can treat others with contempt and disrespect ... they change the parable of the samaritan so they don't have to learn the lesson the Lord Jesus Christ wanted learned ... does not reflect poorly on Scripture ... it reflects poorly on those who claim to be believers and/or born again yet do not learn what the Father wants His children to know.
.
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And you change the efficacious grace of Christ in believers' lives into a big nothingburger since the "One who was born of God" (1Jn 5:18) utterly fails to keep His sheep safe, allowing them to stray and fall prey to the evil one -- even though one is His main purposes for coming into this world was to destroy the works of the devil (1Jn 3:8).
 
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