Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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For the record, I believe people have always been saved by grace through faith. And I believe the same Spirit that indwells us, indwelt them.
It is true to say that OT covenant Israel would have done works because they were also in a covenant of works. And obedience brought blessings and disobedience brought cursing. But the old covenant was meant to show the people their inability to remain faithful and was to point them to Christ. Before they covenant of Sinai, there was already a covenant of grace operating as early as Adam and Eve. We find it extended through Seth, Enoch, and Noah, before it becomes pronounced to Abraham. So there were 2 covenants operating at the same time. The covenant of works was always secondary and designed to preserve Israel and point to the need of something more. That something more was Christ and grace.
Yet you're the one who used idealists vs. determinists labels. Don't be bothered, don't use. Start a new routine for others to follow.
God does it all but then leaves it up to you? Heh, they are so contradictory.
When did you start believing in "the call"?
How can you interpret verses that don't exist? Nothing can be applied to these non-existent verses, but"for obvious reasons"
Too funny.
Would you be referring to the sloppy application and interpretation of scripture with the use of no hermeneutics or context.
y'all carry on as if they do anyways because you have been taken captive through philosophy and empty
deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ.
Why bother going thru the work of seeking the truth and finding it, when you can be spoon-fed dogma, rites and ritual?"for obvious reasons"
Too funny.
Would you be referring to the sloppy application and interpretation of scripture with the use of no hermeneutics or context.
And as you can see.....the dogma crowd has offered no Reformer-concocted answer to the correct predestination definition posted earlier. So I guess that they do indeed find dogma pablum much more palatable than the meat of truth.
Yes, the Pelagian heretics and Arminians and open theists and what have you who deny BiblicalI guess people can make that mistake, but you shouldn't be determining this lol.
This gift of discernment is not for self determined heartless tragic people.
What on earth was you thinking.
passages such as "Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me," insert instead that they made
the choice even though Jesus tells His disciples they did not choose Him, but He chose them.
Then they want to pretend we use verses with no hermeneutics or context because they are
dishonest. It seems they just can't help misrepresenting others, and the fact is they misrepresent
themselves as well. It will be a joyful day in heaven when they finally repent of such behaviour.
No it's what Paul explained as Faith comes by hearing and it requires Faith in order to believe. So you must have Faith or believe in God before you can be saved and that's what my post explains. And once you have Faith or believe in God that's when God is able to Regenerate you. He doesn't Regenerate unbelief [Paul said Faith or belief].
That's not an answer. You said you agree with some reformed doctrine. Which parts do you agree with?
I agree about Natural Man.
But like the Book of Acts explains in Chapter 2 when Natural Man was cut to the heart they Repented and accepted Jesus. And we have Chapter 7 when Natural Man was cut to the heart they [shut off their ears from hearing] the Gospel preached and stoned Stephen to death. The fact Natural Man was nothing until they were cut to the heart shows us how true the other Verses about Natural Man are correct. But the fact when cut to the heart Natural Man could either accept Jesus or Reject Jesus and kill Stephen shows once Natural Man is awakened he has the free will or the ability to choose between accepting Jesus or rejecting Him.
That is one thing and there's others but interested in how you respond to the Biblical TRUTHS I just presented found in the Book of Acts.
Yes sir idealism has been expressed many times more over.
But sir I'm not interested in tit for that with you today sir.
I prefer maturity sir.
I felt that when after reading your many posts there is a chance that you would accept rebuttal.
It's a shame if you can't sir as you have shown a lot more respect than has been shown from the religious racism squad here.
Well from what I can see you have
Well once gain Good day to you sir.
How does a dead man accept, submit, and yield? He is spiritually dead and must be made alive before he can do such things!
This is one of the truths they mock and scoff at, speaking of corpses and then pretending they do not conflate spiritual death
with physical death even after telling us to go preach in cemeteries. The depth and breadth of their dishonesty dismays but
also shows how delusional they are, which is daunting to those hoping to see the light break through their consciousness.
A heart of stone cannot be cut. The heart must first be changed to one of flesh. That occurs only from/by the New Covenant and salvation, whereby, God gives a new heart of flesh. So, by being cut, it meant that salvation had already occurred for them. The repenting and acceptance of Jesus therefore came after the fact and is result, not before being cause.
[Eze 11:19,20 KJV]
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
[Eze 36:26,27 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
The Greek word in Acts 2 has the connotation of sorrow, whereas the Greek word in Acts 7 has the connotation of rage. Not the same word or result.
Was not Adam created in the image of God? Was he not a moral/spiritual being? Did Adam not know right from wrong even before He sinned? If Adam truly had loved God and Eve, he would have done the altruistic, sacrifical thing by interceding on behalf of his wife and offering his life to God for hers. Don't forget: Love does no wrong! So, not only did Adam not demonstrate a scintilla of faith towards God, but he had no love for Him or for Eve. His sin did nothing to expiate Eve's guilt!
Furthermore, when you claim that Adam didn't [intuitively] know (via conscience and the law within his heart) he had such an option, then that implies he had no choice at all but to sin!
You're reading the distributive sense into Jn 3:16. Besides, if that passage is to be understood strictly in the distributive, then how come FWers don't interpret v.17 in the same sense!? Clearly the text says that God sent his Son into the world to save each and every person in the world w/o exception! Universal Atonement = Universal Salvation.
The underlying fact is people of the old t did not have a heart that was conditioned enough to receive salvation, well let' say maybe there where some exceptions, excelling in the examination we all face. But for most part God's word was enforced to people of the old t
( The father wills or no will at all to be blunt sir.) obey or be punished, be good receive reward.
That's all that can be done for the unsaved sir.
But maybe just maybe some people realised I can be good because I want to be that way after the father examining there heart.
But then maybe just maybe, some people say I don't need to be told to be good because you say so. I am good, you know what i mean sir.
Apart from perhaps some exceptions who if Jesus would have come earlier perhaps they could have received salvation whilst they lived and breathed, how big that number I do not know, I would like it to be higher that what can be thought of tho
But Jesus never came until he did.
But the same rules still apply for people today sir , all people have the same examination of the heart as people of the old t did, and I would like to believe the examination is easier today than it was then, but I can't see it sir, especially with so many ancient traditions being abandoned, it could be but I suspect for people of the old t committing more seriously offences as they did, they would have had a higher degree of examination. Through God for-knowing every one sir.
Disaplin has changed, these days you can have freedom to do what you want sir.
Nothing has changed in that respect of the examination of the heart all unsaved people have to undergo sir. But the lord said there will be a great falling away
I may add also it makes no difference sir if Jesus had not yet come, in our life time, you me would be waiting in line with the people from the old t, waiting in line to be preached to, if the lord God felt you should be preached to that is after your own personal examination of the heart and earthly death,
But Regardless sir of what I believe, there my beliefs and I'm only sharing them with you, or anyone else reading this.
I would express tho, if they are going to challenged I would prefer to be spoken to appropriately,
its always a good thing to share faith appropriately I feel.
Have a good day sir
Really? You're not a Libertinist? If not, then explain what exactly is the efficacious spiritual/moral mechanism that ultimately determines whether one is a believer or non-believer, if it's not "freewill" or it's not God's will.
That's your understanding. I disagree with much of it for the reasons I stated already.
Oh dear, Roger, those who scream so much against God's sovereignty are really gonna go into conniptions about Him causing us to obey. Their attitude regarding God acting unilaterally = He is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their free will.
From Romans 7 verses 18-19 Journey from Inability to Ability I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out... I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. Praise be to God for circumcising my sinful nature, causing me to obey by putting His Holy Spirit in me, and giving me a new heart.
