Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

There is no evidence from the scripture you shared that there were some under the conviction of the Spirit rejected God.

I merely pointed out that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict. And one of His methods in doing so is through the preaching of God's Word by faithful believers.

You reject that the folks in Acts 2:37 being "pricked in the heart" is the same as the Holy Spirit convicting them? ... so be it.

Do you know of any others that say those under conviction by the Spirit rejected God and suppressed the truth?

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, of righteousness, of judgment in our day and time according to what Jesus said.

all who reject the truth of Scripture are under conviction of the Holy Spirit.

all who believe the truth of Scripture do so because the Holy Spirit convicted them.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

"when He is come" ... He came on Day of Pentecost ... the day Peter preached in Acts 2.

"will reprove" = translated from the Greek word elégxō which means to reprove, convict, expose, rebuke ... according to HELPS Word-studies elégxō – to convince with solid, compelling evidence, especially to expose (prove wrong, connect)

Romans 1 isn't even talking about people under conviction.

sigh ... the whole world is under conviction ... unbelievers and believers alike ... you're a believer ... the Holy Spirit works in your heart to reprove, convict, expose, rebuke, convince with solid, compelling evidence ... when believers do not heed the conviction of the Holy Spirit, they grieve the Holy Spirit.

It's talking about those who through natural revelation know of the existence of God and reject Him.

God revealing Himself in His creation is spoken of in Romans 1:20.

but you separate Romans 1:16-17 from Romans 1:18-19 ... why is that?

Romans 1:16-19 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

then comes Romans 1:20 where God speaks of His revealing His eternal power and Godhead through creation.


I'm not going to argue with you about the Holy Spirit convicting in Acts 2:37. The information has been provided to you and you can consider it ... reject it ... ridicule it ... believe it ... what you do does not change or affect the ministry of the Holy Spirit in convicting believer and unbeliever alike.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You are again applying verses that speak of natural revelation to the gospel. Two different things. In Romans 1, there is no mention of spiritual activity of God.

really?

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

the Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes ... "no spiritual activity of God" ??? ... smh

I went through Acts 2:37 and showed the activity of God in bringing an individual to faith.

And I showed you that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Jesus told us He would send the Holy Spirit after He left. The Holy Spirit was sent on Day of Pentecost ... the very day Peter preached in Acts 2.

Accept it or don't. Many some are suppressing these truths.

you can accept or not concerning the ministry of the Holy Spirit at work in Acts 2 ... in agreement that "many some are suppressing" the truth of Scripture ... and it's not just one sided if you catch my drift.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Better check with @cv5 before you go on with this claim.

rolleyes ... I don't have to "check with cv5" or anyone else ... Scripture tells us why Adam ate:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
.

 

[Magenta]

Must you be such a messy eye sore in your formatting?

 

[Cameron143]

rolleyes ... I don't have to "check with cv5" or anyone else ... Scripture tells us why Adam ate:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
.

That's certainly one view, but scripture doesn't confirm it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Must you be such a messy eye sore in your formatting?

who is this post addressed to?
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That's certainly one view, but scripture doesn't confirm it.

the fact that Adam did exactly what Gen 2:24 says does not "confirm it"? awwww-hahahahaha!!!
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[Cameron143]

really?

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

the Gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes ... "no spiritual activity of God" ??? ... smh





And I showed you that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Jesus told us He would send the Holy Spirit after He left. The Holy Spirit was sent on Day of Pentecost ... the very day Peter preached in Acts 2.





you can accept or not concerning the ministry of the Holy Spirit at work in Acts 2 ... in agreement that "many some are suppressing" the truth of Scripture ... and it's not just one sided if you catch my drift.
.

Much of what you give as explanation isn't supported by scripture, but there remains a teachable moment here. If you are going to treat the word world as the entirety of humanity, you need to show that all humanity experiences what you claim. The fact is, you cannot provide evidence that the Spirit has convicted every person since the cross of sin. You would also need to show that they were convicted of righteousness. You cannot do this. I can show you from this site people who have not. I can also show you from history that large swaths of humanity never heard the gospel and where there is no apparent evidence God being present. So, just perhaps, world in the verses you shared may not incorporate the whole of humanity. Or, it may just mean where the Spirit is active, one finds the Spirit ministering in these ways. One place you always find the Spirit ministering in these ways is where one finds people being saved.

 

[Cameron143]

the fact that Adam did exactly what Gen 2:24 says does not "confirm it"? awwww-hahahahaha!!!
.

Being one flesh with his wife would never require Adam to sin.

 

[Rufus]

More on the major biblical theme of the Fear of the Lord... Listen up, FWers!

Solomon wrote:

Prov 19:23
23 The fear of the LORD leads to life:
Then one rests content, untouched by trouble.
NIV

And,

Prov 14:27
7 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life ,
turning a man from the snares of death.
NIV

And scripture leaves us with practical examples of how recipients of this promised New Covenant grace respond to this gift.

Acts 10:2
2 He [Cornelius] and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly.
NIV

This grace was efficacious on multiple levels. First, God sovereignly instilled that godly disposition into the hearts of Cornelius and his family. And so God made good on his promise of life to those who revere, worship and fear Him by sending the Holy Spirit to descend on the entire household as they were hearing Peter preach the gospel (Act 10:44).

Then we have the thief on the cross:

Luke 23:40-43
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God ," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
NIV

Again, God made good on his promise! The Fear of the Lord is truly a fountain of life to those who have it.

Then we have Lydia:

Acts 16:14
14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia , a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.
NIV

While technically, the Fear of the Lord is not mentioned in this passage, nonetheless Lydia was a God worshiper which is the very essence of what it means to fear God; for only people with godly hearts can offer true worship to God! The Gr. term sebomai (Strong's 4576) rendered "worshiper" means to "revere" or "adore", which are certainly godly dispositions. Again, God is faithful and he effectively "opened her heart" to respond positively to Paul's preaching. Her godly disposition of heart led her to receive life eternal!

Then we have the account of God-fearing Greeks who wanted an audience with Jesus:

John 12:20-21
20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the Feast. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. "Sir," they said, "we would like to see Jesus."
NIV

Again, we have a very similar situation as with Lydia. The Gr. term "proskeuno" (Strong's 4352) means "do reverence to", "adore", or literally or figuratively "prostrate oneself in homage". These Jewish proselytes (no doubt) feared God and held Him in very high esteem, which is why they made the pilgrimage to the temple in Jerusalem in the first place. We mustn't forget: That the world at large does not seek after God because they have no Fear of God before their eyes (Rom 3:18)! But in this passage, we have Greeks actively seeking out the Son of God!

The Fear of the Lord is truly a necessary and indispensable gift of God that functions to instill godly desires into recipients' hearts.

 

[Rufus]

Being one flesh with his wife would never require Adam to sin.

It appears that God has decreed (determined) that FWers call good evil and evil good. (WOE unto them!) They're bending over backwards to try to make Adam's sinful choice into a righteous, virtuous one! And in so doing, they make Eve the bad gal in the Garden. It was all her fault!

 

[cv5]

No, it comes from knowing the things of God, which knowledge, came from the Holy Spirit as a spiritual man, and not as a natural man. Which things, you seem not to know.

Your rancor is epic, your defeats moreso.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 36 verses 1-4 ~ An oracle is in my heart regarding the transgression of the wicked man: There is no fear of God before his eyes. For his eyes are too full of conceit to detect or hate his own sin. The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and well-doing. Even on his bed he plots wickedness; he sets himself on a path that is not good; he fails to reject evil.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 3 v 9B-18~ Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. As it is written, “There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The venom of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery lie in their wake, and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

 

[cv5]

rolleyes ... I don't have to "check with cv5" or anyone else ... Scripture tells us why Adam ate:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
.

That's one reason alright. Of several.
All of which were predicated upon his own free will, his own volition.

 

[lrs68]

Perhaps it would be better if you signed-up for AtheistChat.com

Exactly since the Reformed would never take the stance to be a witness for Christ when it's easier to say God didn't choose you so enjoy Hell.

 

[Rufus]

reneweddaybyday said:


the fact that Adam did exactly what Gen 2:24 says does not "confirm it"? awwww-hahahahaha!!!

Why didn't Adam step into the gap between Eve and God, as Moses did between Israel and God, and offer to pay her sin debt by pleading with God to take his life on her behalf? I suppose in your universe Adam was more righteous than Moses!

 

[Cameron143]

Exactly since the Reformed would never take the stance to be a witness for Christ when it's easier to say God didn't choose you so enjoy Hell.

This is a ridiculous statement. No one of the reformed faith says anything like this. How could they know who God might extend grace to. They would simply share the gospel. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise.

 

[studier]

Thanks, but save your time and effort, I'll go with the existing translations which have withstood scrutiny for years, over the expertise of amateur Greek/Hebrew grammar experts.

Not really doing this for you, roger. I don't expect you to care nor do I think you'll be able to interact if I get into the Greek or point to writings that do.

I first looked at this for myself some time ago and revisited it several times over the years and a few times since I started interacting on these threads. For several reasons the determinist interpretation IMO makes the least amount of sense.

If you'd like to read an article that gets into the commentaries and provides some degree of an analysis of them and comes to its own conclusion, I've read this among others.

The point is, there has been a lot of work done on this verse and just like the Gospel, people get to make a choice as to what to receive and what to reject.

 

[cv5]

Adam defeated Satan? I may have never before ever heard such utterly worthless poppycock!
Where do these people come up with this stuff? The toilet? It should have been flushed long ago!

The vainglorious ways these self-idolaters have of adding to God's Word is gob smacking.

Wise men and scribes show up and give all of the prisoners hacksaws and this is the thanks we get? Sheesh.