He requires faith for us to be on the "right side" of God.
Not to be God.
He still remains God when someone rejects him.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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He requires faith for us to be on the "right side" of God.
Not to be God.
He still remains God when someone rejects him.
Address those who I am addressing. I know God doesn't need Faith because He is Faith.
Naw scripture tells us all to humble ourselves before God and then he shall lift us up .
“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
James 4:8, 10 KJV
“Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1 Peter 5:6-7KJV
We’re meant to hear and believe and act upon his word that’s his gift
Job 38 v 36 - Job 32:8 - Job 12 v 13 Who has put wisdom in the heart or given understanding to the mind? There is a spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding. Wisdom and strength belong to God; counsel and understanding are His.
You’re making the claim, not me. I’ve never said faith is apart from God’s Gospel or Spirit. If you think non-determinists ‘leave God out,’ show it from Scripture or from our actual statements, otherwise it’s just unsubstantiated and burden-shifting.
Indulge us if you will, and elaborate on the "faith generated/generator" idea that you have set forth.
I mean these "corpses" are generating SOMETHING, SOMEHOW. But what exactly?
So your super-determinist position demands that these individuals are basically robots, programmed by God, wired to say and do what they say and do? Believing also that they are utterly devoid of ANY innate volition whereby they can respond in ANY meaningful, effective way to the message and presence of Jesus?
And you believe that these two are in fact "corpses", dead in trespasses and sins, utterly incapable of responding to stimuli?
Or maybe God gave them a jolt just to see them twitch for a while?
Or, IMO, they are truly alive free will volitional creatures who are fully capable of responding POSITIVELY to the gospel message.
Thats what I am going for.
I mean even Jesus seems impressed and surprised by this phenomenal display of what YOU describe as "faith generated by individuals".
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[Luk 7:9 KJV]
When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
[Mat 15:28 KJV]
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] ***thy*** faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
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No He is not! He is filled with wondrous, breath-taking and incomprehensible love for his people. And I, for one, take great comfort in knowing that God cannot approve of or love anything or anyone that is inherently evil. I would want nothing to do with any god who loves both the righteous and the wicked simultaneously.
Of course, they can respond once raised from the dead.
In Eph 2:1–5 Paul explains ‘dead in sins’ as walking in disobedience. Corpses don’t walk. And he doesn't say you must be raised before you can respond. That’s your claim; can you show where Paul says it here?
Fine sounding words...
But that does not always apply to our here and now....
My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline,
and do not resent his rebuke,
because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
as a father, the son he delights in.
Proverbs 3:11-12
Of course, they can respond once raised from the dead.
A deaf person is dead to sound.
If hearing is restored?
He is no longer dead to sound.
Our sinful flesh made our soul "deaf" (dead) to God.
If Grace removes that effect of the flesh?
Our soul now hears God.
As beggars cannot be choosers, so too, no man dead in sins can choose his way out of spiritual death.
The fact that only [some] are chosen does not make God unfair in any way, for all men deserve to be punished!
Paul defines Abraham’s descendants as those who believe (Rom 4:11; Gal 3:7). Scripture puts faith before salvation. Your deterministic claim isn’t in Luke 1 or Paul. Can you prove it from Scripture?
What did man choose for that causes him to deserve to be punished?
Were you there cheering Adam on?
It is his fall that we share in.
But we had no choice in that matter!
So, we should be punished for what Adam did?
Or, forsaken for what Adam BECAME?
Jesus was 'forsaken' on the Cross.
In your world there is no downside for anyone who dies in Adam. How could there be? He was such a virtuous, God-fearing, pious believer -- to anyone who believes CV5's absurd theories.
The claim is not only absurd but a common misrepresentation of non-deterministic thinking in this forum. Scripture is clear there is a terrible downside for those who die in Adam. They perish apart from Christ. That’s precisely why choosing faith in Christ is necessary. Faith precedes salvation, and God’s people are those who choose to believe (Rom 4; Gal 3)
His son Abel wasn't too shabby either. Probably took after his dad.In your world there is no downside for anyone who dies in Adam. How could there be? He was such a virtuous, God-fearing, pious believer -- to anyone who believes CV5's absurd theories.
And Enoch did well for himself.
I made no such claim. But you did make the claim that by the word and Spirit God enables man to make a choice whether to believe or not. I was wondering if you can show from scripture this claim.
So tell me in exorbitant detail how those passages fit snugly into your own personal view of "determinism".
What you posted is more of a dodge to the exit door of debate than a well crafted, complete and comprehensive defense.
Offering an alternative is hardly enabling per se.
Offer somebody an alternative to certain death in the electric chair, and they RESPOND by avidly TAKING/SEIZING/RECEIVING this acquittal, is surely a definitive volitional act of their OWN WILL, predicated upon their desire to LIVE and not die.
Would you care to offer an alternative explanation perhaps?
Maybe something spooky and irrational and absurd having to do with wormholes and black hole time warps and "2001 a Space Odyssey" obelisks and suchlike things?
Luke 4 v 18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.