2 Timothy 3 verse 12 ~ Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
In other words, the disciples of Christ are not better or above their Master who suffered for us! Why shouldn't we suffer for Him in return?
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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In other words, the disciples of Christ are not better or above their Master who suffered for us! Why shouldn't we suffer for Him in return?
No. She is telling us our understanding of salvation according to her has us making God be unfair.
If one is alive then he will indeed be saved from death at birth which is when he becomes conscious of that new life within him.
I have mentioned this before. If we(freewillers) are correct and salvation does require a personal choice to trust in Christ......We are safe either way. We thought we needed to trust Christ, But we were just elected to salvation.
The calvies fight tooth and nail to teach us we cannot make a personal choice. So they have a 50/50 shot at salvation.
No security.
Well she lies her face off and misrepresents us to her evil heart's content. Maybe she should actually read the Bible.
The unregenerated person may actually approach God, believing that He will be heard. However, his words will be empty! They will be spoken without trust! They will not be pleasing to God! They are spoken as a lie! They really want nothing to do with god, but hope to escape His justice!
Simply speaking, they are the words of a dead man...........
Or more accurately, God has given his elect their new hearts that He can fill with godly desires so that they will "choose for that". Man's will is driven by his desires which originate our our hearts, not our wills.
Oh I see well the thing is unless you are regenerated you cannot believe because the gospel is foolishness to those who are not regenerated and faith is in fact a gift as the scriptures say the issue is if one believes they can choose to believe without God first drawing them then they are misled because you can do all the right things you can go to church you can read the bible you can pray and serve others but anyone can do this it takes a true born again experience to be saved made a new person in Christ to be saved and this only happens if you are first regenereated.
So if people are saying you can believe and have faith freely of your own desire then they are mistaken
Psalm 37 verse 4 Delight yourself in the LORD, and He will give you the desires of your heart.
She wouldn't answer my question because it would show her duplicity. On the one hand, God is definitely just. On the other hand, He ignored large swaths of humanity throughout history.
2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
He will not turn anyone down. And anyone can come.....NOW.
As in "deep inside" the heart of "an individual" (Rom 10:10)? Perhaps this is the reason why God gives his New Covenant people a new heart -- so that they can believe? How can any person believe when the thoughts and intentions of all the unsaved are evil continually (Gen 6:5) and when the hearts of men are full of evil and madness all their lives (Eccl 9:3)?
As Amos said, "You [Israel] only have I known of all the families of the land..." (Amos 3:2a) Sounds to me like the pagan nations in the land got shut out. So much for "equal opportunity"...
Just separating this because yes, this is pretty much exactly the crux of the "discussion." They say man has everything he needs already and can decide with his incurably wicked heart to believe things he is opposed to, this is definitely the thing: that unregenerated person can and will decide, in their theology, to believe the very things he is not even able to receive or comprehend. The gospel is heard as foolishness, no problem, let's believe it! Who do you know that chose to believe what they have decided is nonsense? They get around verses like 1 Cor 2:14 by rewriting them and saying the words do not mean what they say. They pull those types of stunts often. They claim only atheists choose to sin and are slaves to sin. It gets quite bizarre. So when I say they I do not mean every single one of them believes the same thing. But overall their theology is so off the wall it is mind boggling, and individually they all agree that the unregenerated person can do what Scripture says they can't. Like submit to God. They claim inability is not part of man's make-up, that man is able to decide to believe. That is the free will argument. On the other hand flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Then they will say they don't claim it is the flesh making that choice but then what is it\? That person is not indwelt. They only have the flesh until made alive in Christ.But it matters not to them, and they just keep ascribing to the unregenerated man what is only possible to the regenerated man.
You guys come across as joyous that the "poor suckers" don't have the opportunity that was offered to you special elected ones.
Thank God I get to see each and every individual as savable.
How can anyone believe this way? that verse alone should settle the debate and then to try to make some kind of loop hole? no one and I mean no one without being born again will accept the things of the spirit nor can any works of the flesh bare spiritual fruit no faith no love of God nothing
Surely there must be some kind of misunderstanding? it is pretty clear from scripture alone that the natural cannot comprehend the spiritual and that faith is a gift from God alone.
Nope. They deny it means what it plainly says. Then they will go on about how the natural man
is only mentioned maybe once? As if that has any bearing on the fact that natural and spiritual
are juxtaposed often throughout Scripture. First comes the natural then the spiritual.
That is why we call them gymnasts. They are full of stunts.
gymnast
No one is joyful over the fact that people are lost. To a person, those you have characterized so poorly would that all would be saved. We even pray to this end. We pray that God would grant revival and large numbers of people would flock to the Lord. But none of that changes what is written in the word of God. Having a different understanding of scripture doesn't render another evil. All true Christians desire the salvation of others because the love of God is shed abroad in their hearts.