Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Rahab was not brain dead that's for sure. Neither was the king of Jericho. But the one made RIGHT CHOICES and the other did not.

Question to the super-determinists:
Does the memory of the Lord drying up the Red Sea resound and reverberated to this present day? Well, it does. This was the beginning of Rahab's believing back then. And likewise it can be to ANYONE today. Anyone without exception.

Bottom line.....the whole world knows the fame of the God of Israel back then and of Jesus at His advent. The only matter that remains is what every man CHOOSES to do with these startling revelations.

[Jos 2:8-10 KJV]
8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof;
9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

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And what is this? "The Egyptians shall know"? Well I think that the Egyptians made the same mistake as the king of Jericho....BAD CHOICES.

[Exo 7:5 KJV] 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.

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What the "whole world" knows ABOUT God doesn't count for diddly! What does count is being in a personal, intimate, familial, covenantal, loving relationship with God. The demons know much ABOUT but that's not going to do them much good, is it? Or maybe you think the devil and his hordes are superheros like Adam was?

 

[Magenta]

Why wouldn't "natural man" know he's a sinner? Can he run and hide from himself? Can he rip
from his heart the works of the law which God has implanted into everyone's hearts? But man
is very good at searing his own God-given conscience to make it hard and callous.

Interesting that in man's quest for freedom at all costs he divorces Himself from the source
of life and goodness itself, and has done from the dawn of time. Also many who are not believers
may not accept such Biblical constructs as "sinner." It is also true that some go as far as to say
there is no right or wrong. This too just goes to show how depraved man really is.

 

[Magenta]

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Rufus]

Aaahhhmmm no.

The [REMNANT] Israelite ***nation*** will be ushered INTO the New Covenant when they accept their Savior at the SC. And THEN they will faithfully and fully serve the purpose to which they were originally assigned: Ministering to the gentiles.

FTFY!

Rom 11:1-6
11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah — how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? 4 And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there IS a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
NIV

Note the present tense of the very "is" in v. 5.

And besides, don't you know the kingdom has been taken away from Israel and given to another nation, i.e. the Church? And the Church consists of all Abraham's spiritual descendants -- Jewish and Gentile believers alike, so that they are now ONE body. Jesus Christ doesn't sport two bodies! Nor is He the Husband of two different wives. Nor does He speak out of both sides of his mouth!

 

[cv5]

Why wouldn't "natural man" know he's a sinner? Can he run and hide from himself? Can he rip from his heart the works of the law which God has implanted into everyone's hearts? But man is very good at searing his own God-given conscience to make it hard and callous.

Zecharias and Elizabeth. Simeon. Anna. Daniel. David's mighty men. The Gibeonites. Rahab. Ruth. Tons of other faithful OT saints who don't kowtow to your canned ossified erroneous notions of "natural man". In fact they are stark examples to the contrary.

[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

As did they all. And so can anyone else.

Unless you willfully resist God's Word and commands ....like Pharaoh.
And in so doing bring judgement upon yourself.

 

[Mem]

Zecharias and Elizabeth. Simeon. Anna. Daniel. David's mighty men. The Gibeonites. Rahab. Ruth. Tons of other faithful OT saints who don't kowtow to your canned ossified erroneous notions of "natural man". In fact they are stark examples to the contrary.

[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

As did they all. And so can anyone else.

Unless you willfully resist God's Word and commands ....like Pharaoh.
And in so doing bring judgement upon yourself.

In old days, to receive someone used to mean that you let them in when they came calling. Does it now mean that the caller crashes in without even knocking?

 

[cv5]

What the "whole world" knows ABOUT God doesn't count for diddly! What does count is being in a personal, intimate, familial, covenantal, loving relationship with God. The demons know much ABOUT but that's not going to do them much good, is it? Or maybe you think the devil and his hordes are superheros like Adam was?

It's the "I'm extra special" argument again. Rahab doesn't care. Nor does the Canaanite woman of Matt 15. Nor the Roman Centurion of Luke 7.

 

[cv5]

In old days, to receive someone used to mean that you let them in when they came calling. Does it now mean that the caller crashes in without even knocking?

That and the shotgun weddings are giving the God of the super-determinists a bad name.

 

[Kroogz]

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

For unto you it is graciously granted for the sake of Christ, not only to believe upon him, but also to suffer for the sake of Christ.

The true intention and teaching of this verse gets completely lost in order to establish a "proof'" text for reformed theology.

Suffering for the sake of Christ is graciously granted to the BELIEVER. Suffering for the sake of Christ grows and matures the believer.....And it is a GIFT. Not a gift that gets taught much in this day and age!

The calvies are partially to blame for hiding this gift of suffering....They just use it as a proof text for their FALSE doctrine.

Philippians 1:12
12 Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel,

 

[Magenta]

And besides, don't you know the kingdom has been taken away from Israel and given to another nation, i.e. the Church? And the Church consists of all Abraham's spiritual descendants -- Jewish and Gentile believers alike, so that they are now ONE body. Jesus Christ doesn't sport two bodies! Nor is He the Husband of two different wives. Nor does He speak out of both sides of his mouth!

From Galatians 4 v 22-24 plus 28-29 and 5 v 1 Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise. These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery. We, like Isaac, are children of promise. The son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

 

[Mem]

That and the shotgun weddings are giving the God of the super-determinists a bad name.

And it's no wonder that gentlemen are a rare breed these days (and to be fair, of consequence, ladies are also heading toward extinction).

 

[NightTwister]

nope ... sigh ... here's the discussion:










Kroogz: Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is non-meritorious......It is the same "work" all of us MUST do to be saved.

NightTwister: "work" is "meritoriuos"


Romans 4 makes clear that believing is not "work" ... nor is it "meritorious"


"meritorious" ... deserving reward or praise (from Oxford Languages).

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

vs 4 = to him that works, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt = "meritorious"

vs 5 = to him that works not, but believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness = not of works



2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
.

Why must you continue to lie about what I said? I said "work" and you keep saying that I said "faith." Stop lying.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Oh really and the verse was exegeted looking at the words in Greek, analyzing the grammar, and in context.

As well, looking the meaning of the individual words by examining contemporaneous text to be sure that the correct meaning is applied.

Yes I did miss that.

they call it "harmonizing" ... example of "harmonizing" ... "well, the word " fill in the blank " is in this verse and the word " fill in the blank " is in that verse ... so of course this verse and that verse are interchangeable, you foolish Bible denying pelagian heretic"
.

 

[Magenta]

You did not choose me...

 

[Magenta]

John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Why must you continue to lie about what I said? I said "work" and you keep saying that I said "faith." Stop lying.

we all know the conversation so quit rationalizing ... my clarifying that faith is not works ... nor is it meritorious ... is not "lying" ... just believe what is written in Romans 4.
.

 

[BillyBob]

You chose The Lord Jesus Christ. I have no doubt.

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is non-meritorious......It is the same "work" all of us MUST do to be saved.

A man’s believing does not prompt salvation, for saving faith is given, it comes by the grace of God according to the will of God by which a man is saved. Believing comes in the package marked SALVATION BY GRACE.

...Moreno Dal Bello... ​

 

[studier]

well there they are - have at it. You might explain the ones that @Magenta presented too while you're at it

Magenta is among a few I have on ignore.

 

[NightTwister]

we all know the conversation so quit rationalizing ... my clarifying that faith is not works ... nor is it meritorious ... is not "lying" ... just believe what is written in Romans 4.
.

Another perpetual liar. No purpose in continued discussions. Have a nice day.

 

[Kroogz]

A man’s believing does not prompt salvation.

We agree.

The Holy Spirit will convict/convince the WORLD/ALL.

2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

This is all inclusive. NOW is the day of salvation. Yesterday, today and tomorrow.......for anyone.