Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

2 Peter 3 v 15-16 ~ Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Rufus]

We're called to be Disciples and fulfill Matthew 28 Great Commission set forth by Jesus.

Yes, but we don't do that in the same capacity with each other. God called each of us to fulfill His purpose in difference capacities.

 

[cv5]

You have no idea what the word "debunked" means. Actually, you struggle with the definition of many words.

This clearly seems to be the case with you. Just like the Pharisees, FWers think it's all about them and what they do. Much room for boasting!

Well.....at least I got "retort" right. I think.

re·tort
[rəˈtôrt]
verb

1. say something in answer to a remark or accusation, typically in a sharp, angry, or wittily incisive manner:

 

[Rufus]

Honestly I don't even know what to say to any of that. It's like you don't hear a word I say. I didn't even speak of when God made the decisions, I accepted people understood it was before time hence the "fore" knowledge.

My point was foreknowledge didn't deal with what God knew but who He knew.

You said quote: "This passage has zero to do with God's prescience and everything to do with with his personal covenant of love,"

This is exactly what I said. Foreknowledge has to do with the people and only with the people He sees Himself within a relationship.

Strewth.

Then what does "foreknowledge" in Rom 8:29 mean? What is the significance to "foreknowing"? It certainly cannot mean that God "foreknew" all mankind w/o exception.

 

[Magenta]

Then what does "foreknowledge" in Rom 8:29 mean? What is the significance to "foreknowing"?
It certainly cannot mean that God "foreknew" all mankind w/o exception.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Rufus]

yes.





yes ... agree Adam died on that day ... otherwise our Bibles fall apart at Gen 2:17.





well ... something changed ... and it wasn't God ... that caused God and Adam to have a more remote or distant relationship.





interesting points concerning temple worship ...





you and I have discussed the consequence of the fall of Adam and Eve in the past ... I do not believe we are in agreement ... we shall see how fruitful our discussion will be on this aspect ...
.

Stay tuned....Hopefully today, I'll get an opportunity to beam up part 2 of my "temple" post.

 

[cv5]

Then what does "foreknowledge" in Rom 8:29 mean? What is the significance to "foreknowing"? It certainly cannot mean that God "foreknew" all mankind w/o exception.

"foreknowing" ≠ "shotgun wedding".

"predestined" = "prepared destination". Arrival occuring in the future.

 

[Rufus]

Romans 1 tells us that God manifested Himself to people but they refuse to accept Him.

If people can reject God after God makes Himself known to them then why can't people accept God the same way. There's 2 options after God makes Himself known to us. Reject or Accept. But that is our decision to make, correct?

Because many things cannot be undone by finite, fallible humans. Believe it or not, we're not independent, autonomous creatures of God. In fact, God created ALL life -- (yeah...I mean "all" life w/o exception) to depend, rely upon and trust him Him for sustenance.

 

[Magenta]

Because many things cannot be undone by finite, fallible humans. Believe it or not, we're
not independent, autonomous creatures of God. In fact, God created ALL life -- (yeah...
I mean "all" life w/o exception) to depend, rely upon and trust him Him for sustenance.

In Him all things hold together... upholding all things by His powerful word.

 

[Rufus]

"foreknowing" ≠ "shotgun wedding".

"predestined" = "prepared destination". Arrival occuring in the future.

How blessed the condemned will be in Mat 7:23 for all eternity, since they will have avoided that dreadful "shotgun wedding".

 

[Magenta]

How blessed the condemned will be in Mat 7:23 for all eternity, since they will have avoided that dreadful "shotgun wedding".

From Matthew 7 v 24-27 Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!

 

[Magenta]

I'll get to that because right now I'm rethinking (thanks in part to Magenta) how exactly Adam died on the day he disobeyed.

Eh? Heh, whateever do you mean? Is this in regards to whether or not he ate from the Tree of Life?

I cannot recall what your take on this is. Some believe he did. I do not believe the text supports such...

 

[cv5]

And, here too!

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, ​

how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her ​

chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." Matthew 23:37​

Those who make wrong and bad choices.
Even they...
God works together for the good of those who love Him.

grace and peace ............

Gen 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

This is always the case for the supergrace believers. Those who, like Jacob (the "Heel Holder") HANG ON.

 

[cv5]

Because many things cannot be undone by finite, fallible humans. Believe it or not, we're not independent, autonomous creatures of God. In fact, God created ALL life -- (yeah...I mean "all" life w/o exception) to depend, rely upon and trust him Him for sustenance.

Soooooo......pre-birth lottery? That is what you are trying to say?

Seems like a stretch. And a lot of bafflegab.

 

[Genez]

Apparently also boring?

.... fixed it!

 

[NightTwister]

OK, I see that you are confused with my Jethro Bodine styled responses. Perfectly understandable.

So let me dumb this debate down even further by asking you a rhetorical question:
What does the pre-birth lottery have to do with what Jesus says about "overcoming"?

Rhetorical answer: absolutely nothing.

And BTW dear commentator, never forget this:
There is ZERO scriptural evidence that our existence predates conception in the womb.
On the contrary we are a new creation in time, despite the Lord being outside of it.

In other words, the pre-birth lottery super-determinist mythos is reformer junk philosophy fit for the dumpster.
Thats just the way it is buddy.

Dumbing things down is what you do best.

 

[Genez]

Because many things cannot be undone by finite, fallible humans. Believe it or not, we're not independent, autonomous creatures of God. In fact, God created ALL life -- (yeah...I mean "all" life w/o exception) to depend, rely upon and trust him Him for sustenance.

So..in that case.
What we have been doing is all a waste of time?

That we should simply be existing somewhere doing what God wants?
Never knowing that there are unbelievers someplace else hidden?

Lord! Snap your fingers and make it RIGHT!
Burn up Satan, and make the others uptight!

Forget about choice!
Forget about choosing!

There'll be no winners.
There'll be no losing.

Make it SIMPLE!
With nothing........... confusing.

Upon your premise,
I just went musing.


.

​

 

[Genez]

Dumbing things down is what you do best.

We are told to be all things to all men.

 

[cv5]

Dumbing things down is what you do best.

Just trying to reach you buddy.

 

[NightTwister]

Just trying to reach you buddy.

You didn't need to do that for me, but I know it's the best you can do.