Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Pilgrimshope said:
Baptism is doctrine based on Jesus dying for our sins

We believe this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then baptism is based on that belief The only reason to get baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins is because you believe he died for your sins and rose again .

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( his death for our sins ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead ( his resurrection ) by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, ( for our sins ) we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: ( for our justification )

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, ( died with him in baptism ) that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,( his death that baptism includes us in )
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” ( His resurrection )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is only for those who hear and believe jesus died for thier sins and rose again . It isn’t anything if you remove the faith it’s witnessing which a lot of people do

baptsm itself is nothing what god says about it in scriptire is what makes it important it’s only for people who believe the gospel
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Yes precisely and so in baptism from death to life it is also only by the blood of Christ that we are saved if one could be saved from birth by being baptized then it would be an easy matter and not a life changing thing
I am still waiting to hear the response from that person but I highly doubt they would have anything to be able to prove their salvation when the scriptures say what baptism is for and who it is for
 
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HeIsHere said:
I agree with this statement and I also believe this is the correct orthodox position and "Total Inability" is built on
>>>>>> out of context non-exegeted verses AND is completely outside of traditional evangelical thought.

I tend to go with a little leaven leavens the whole loaf and I see "saving faith being a gift" the start of the little leaven.
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I fully understand the sentiment of your last statement and that it takes some logic to deal with the syllogism I presented. I certainly don't start with faith is a gift and certainly don't think Eph2:8 says it is grammatically.

But there are times in the discussion of certain verses re: faith that I've found it necessary to consider the syllogism. Rom10 at times is such a case. The resurrected Jesus Christ is a gift (to say the least). Apart from this our faith is worthless as Paul talks about in 1Cor15.
 
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studier said:
I fully understand the sentiment of your last statement and that it takes some logic to deal with the syllogism I presented. I certainly don't start with faith is a gift and certainly don't think Eph2:8 says it is grammatically.

But there are times in the discussion of certain verses re: faith that I've found it necessary to consider the syllogism. Rom10 at times is such a case. The resurrected Jesus Christ is a gift (to say the least). Apart from this our faith is worthless as Paul talks about in 1Cor15.
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Yes I do think syllogism can be very useful.


studier said:
The resurrected Jesus Christ is a gift (to say the least).
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Amen!
 
Cameron143 said:
He chose sovereignly. The reason for the choice lies within God Himself.
Many say that God looked into the future, saw who would receive Him, and chose on this basis. That's an easy thing to believe. It fits well with many people's idea of who God is. And I would be inclined to believe this if it weren't for verses such as Romans 8:29 which speak not of what God foreknew, but whom He foreknew.
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So it has nothing to do with what they do ? And is just something god decided but not because he knew thier works ?

So What do you do with this ?

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

Is Jesus wrong about that determining factor ?

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

What do you do to square scriptire with this “soveriegn choice “ not based on his foreknowledge or what he actually said it’s based on ?
 
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Blain said:
Yes precisely and so in baptism from death to life it is also only by the blood of Christ that we are saved if one could be saved from birth by being baptized then it would be an easy matter and not a life changing thing
I am still waiting to hear the response from that person but I highly doubt they would have anything to be able to prove their salvation when the scriptures say what baptism is for and who it is for
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yep it’s for sinners who believe in Jesus and want thier sins remitted
 
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Cameron143 said:
He chose sovereignly. The reason for the choice lies within God Himself.
Many say that God looked into the future, saw who would receive Him, and chose on this basis. That's an easy thing to believe. It fits well with many people's idea of who God is. And I would be inclined to believe this if it weren't for verses such as Romans 8:29 which speak not of what God foreknew, but whom He foreknew.
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God does not have to look into the future.
For, God has always known the future.

Did God choose before the foundations of the earth for Moses to be made the Bride of Christ?

No... Moses was chosen by God to be a Jew, to be living and believing in the age of Israel, not the church age.

Only those who were chosen "in Christ" are to be the Bride.
Predestined to be born during the Church age!

That is what we had been chosen for.
 
studier said:
IMO fallen man retains the faculties to believe / to actively receive, and God provides in grace and power in His Word and by His Spirit all that is necessary for fallen man to choose to believe or reject God. Simply put anyway.
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Surely this is the case. God's plan is perfect and perfectly adequate to get the job done. No doubt about it.

[Luk 16:31 KJV] 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
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studier said:
As @Genez just posted, there is a lot of doctrine from theology (not "theology" in a criticizing sense) included in metanoia.

The word itself has a very simple meaning that is not infused with all the theology.

"Repent" itself is an infused word that is not from old Greek. Remember, we're reading translations much of which are coming from old Latin and thus from Church history:

repent(v.) (resource linked)​
c. 1300, repenten, "be grieved over one's past and seek forgiveness; feel such regret for sins, crimes, or omissions as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here perhaps used as an intensive prefix, "very much" (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal).​
The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but is absent in older periods. To repent is to regret so deeply as to change the mind or course of conduct in consequence and develop new mental and spiritual habits. Also from c. 1300 in Middle English and after in an impersonal reflexive sense, especially as (it) repenteth (me, him, etc.).​
​
I don't think we necessarily need to infuse metanoia with all the grief and sorrow. Not that it's absolutely wrong, but metanoia is primarily about the mind, the thinking, and the emotions are a side discussion and not necessary for every person.

What is directly attached to metanoeō is turning to God from whatever needs to be turned from. What is also directly attached is belief. If we're going to discuss emotions, it's downstream from there.
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Then you would be wrong on three levels: First with 2Cor 7:10.

Secondly, repentance, faith and love all originate NOT in a person's will per se but in his HEART from which he believes. If a person's entire heart (which would include his passions) is not involved in his conversion, then he never truly converted (Rom 10:9). Mere mental, passionless ascent to biblical truth doesn't cut it.

Lastly, this is why God's fulfillment of His unilateral promise to circumcise the hearts (Deut 30:6) of His covenant people (not to be confused with the world) is critically important, since heartfelt belief works through love (Gal 5:16).
 
Pilgrimshope said:
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭KJV ‬‬
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Jesus clearly has failed HUGELY since He has not been saving all men w/o exception. Yet...that was/is apparently the purpose of the Father for sending his Son into the world.
 
studier said:
I certainly don't start with faith is a gift and certainly don't think Eph2:8 says it is grammatically.
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James1-17-18-Numbers23-19c-Philippians3-21.png

James 1 v 17-18, Numbers 23 v 19c, and from Philippians 3 v 21 ~ Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. Does He promise and not fulfill? He has the power to subject all things to Himself.
 
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cv5 said:
A thorough word study of the term "peripateō" makes the fact of human FREE WILL and volition perfectly clear.
And aligns in perfect accord with every OT exhortation there ever was.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g4043/kjv/tr/0-1/
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One's walk is definitely part of the volitional consideration. This attack against man's will is really foundational IMO and dishonors our Creator's ability to not only create but to deal with His volitional creatures in a way that perfectly handles those made in His likeness.
 
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