Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you also believe that in order for a person to believe the Gospel they must have divine, unique, special and personal intervention?

as I have stated over and over in the pages of this thread ... God always makes the first move ...

God has revealed Himself in creation ... that is God making the first move. He can keep Himself hidden if / when He wants to.

God has given us the Scriptures ... that is God making the first move.

God inspires faithful believers to speak His Word to the world ... that is God making the first move.

As in regenerated before a person can believe?

I believe a person is born again when he or she believes.

That is what Cameron asserts, fyi.

Cameron143 and I were discussing whether natural man can understand the gospel which he or she considers foolishness.

Cameron143 and I are in agreement that natural man can understand the gospel ... some consider the gospel foolishness even though they understand.

.

 

[HeIsHere]

Because it follows belief. You can't repent of something before you believe something else in place of what you formerly believed.

I know the drill, it is incorrect, but your energy is admirable.

 

[Jackson129]

Jackson,
Those who are in Christ may mourn their sin, but they have already been forgiven.
1) their sins have been nailed to the cross. 2) They bare them no more. 3) Their sins have been cast away as far as the east to the west. 4) They are remembered no more.
If they are remembered no more, 5) they will be found spotless before the Lamb.

It is only those who are not in Christ who will be judged according to evil that they have done. It is those who will be without excuse.
Just my opinion, as always .......

I respect your opinion you type things out as you are thinking them I can tell that. I like when people dont just copy and paste the same thing over and over and over.

You are right those who are not in Christ will have no excuse which means they had a chance. An excuse dosent even enter into the equation for a believer because they believed. The barrier of sin was removed from all. you only have to believe. It remains if you do not.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jackson,
Those who are in Christ may mourn their sin, but they have already been forgiven.
1) their sins have been nailed to the cross. 2) They bare them no more. 3) Their sins have been cast away as far as the east to the west. 4) They are remembered no more.
If they are remembered no more, 5) they will be found spotless before the Lamb.

It is only those who are not in Christ who will be judged according to evil that they have done. It is those who will be without excuse.
Just my opinion, as always .......

“It is only those who are not in Christ who will be judged according to evil that they have done. “

I could repeat this quote from several epistles but I’ll spare you with just this one that Paul wrote to his beloved corinthians church

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to take belief of the gospel with us to judgement

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to hear the things the jidge said so we’re prepared forgive don’t judge be merciful don’t condemn ect Paul preached it also Roman’s 2 is scary but if you look at the context you’ll see Jesus teaching about not judging and condemning others

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭NIV‬‬

the reason is because we all have to be judged for what we’ve done and said we can be judged mercifully and forgiven or we can be judged without mercy if we aren’t merciful

“Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, ( John 8:31-32) because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Jackson129]

Because it follows belief. You can't repent of something before you believe something else in place of what you formerly believed.

You are not repenting of anything before you belive. You belive then you repent.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I don't think the unbeliever necessarily understands the gospel at all. I mean, Scripture says he cannot receive it, and he is blinded to the truth of it, being under the power and influence of Satan, as is the whole world, which is why we must be called out of the world, to receive and understand. 1 Cor 2:14 also says they cannot understand the spiritual things of God because they are spiritually discerned. Of course the free willing folks rewrite those verses to suit their self-exalting idol, but I believe they mean what they say....

... no re-writing of Scripture is going on, Magenta. Revealing the truth of what is written in 1 Cor 2:14 ... that the spiritual matters revealed in 1 Cor 2:6-16 go beyond the scope of the gospel is not following some "self-exalting idol".

the fact that you fold the gospel into the spiritual matters which go beyond the scope of the gospel reveals that you do not understand the deeper spiritual matters revealed in 1 Cor 2:6-16 ... and possibly the gospel as well ... just sayin'
.

 

[HeIsHere]

You are not repenting of anything before you belive. You belive then you repent.

Repentance is a change of mind, literally means away from and towards something else, (metanoia) so it does happen before belief.

 

[Blain]

You are not repenting of anything before you belive. You belive then you repent.

I would disagree since repentance is a change of heart you can believe in God without being repentant and you can even call yourself Christian do all the right things but without repentance it amounts to nothing

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think the unbeliever necessarily understands the gospel at all. I mean, Scripture says he cannot receive it, and he is blinded to the truth of it, being under the power and influence of Satan, as is the whole world, which is why we must be called out of the world, to receive and understand. 1 Cor 2:14 also says they cannot understand the spiritual things of God because they are spiritually discerned. Of course the free willing folks rewrite those verses to suit their self-exalting idol, but I believe they mean what they say....

I can sit down with just about any 6 year old and share the gospel in a way they will understand the content of what I am sharing. Just like I could teach them a biology lesson and they would understand the context of that. They wouldn't think it foolish to learn the biology lesson. Neither would they think learning things about God is foolish. But they will not truly comprehend the things of God. Human wisdom and logic are insufficient to understand the things of God, and the natural man lacks the Spirit to lead them into truth.
The kingdom of God is opposite the kingdoms of the world. The world teaches us to live for self. The kingdom of God teaches us to live for God and others. This is what they see as foolish. They don't understand how it profits them to live this way.
There are many other examples I could give, but you get the point. The natural man does understand intellectually; just not spiritually.

 

[Cameron143]

You are not repenting of anything before you belive. You belive then you repent.

That's exactly what I said.

 

[Cameron143]

I know the drill, it is incorrect, but your energy is admirable.

So you believe repentance precedes faith?

 

[Blain]

I can sit down with just about any 6 year old and share the gospel in a way they will understand the content of what I am sharing. Just like I could teach them a biology lesson and they would understand the context of that. They wouldn't think it foolish to learn the biology lesson. Neither would they think learning things about God is foolish. But they will not truly comprehend the things of God. Human wisdom and logic are insufficient to understand the things of God, and the natural man lacks the Spirit to lead them into truth.
The kingdom of God is opposite the kingdoms of the world. The world teaches us to live for self. The kingdom of God teaches us to live for God and others. This is what they see as foolish. They don't understand how it profits them to live this way.
There are many other examples I could give, but you get the point. The natural man does understand intellectually; just not spiritually.

Hello @Cameron143 I was wondering do you think it better sometimes to view the word of God with the eyes of a child? what I mean is this children don't overcomplicate things they take everything as it is but then you have the minds of theologions who seem to be able to divide the word of God and build doctrines on cherry picked verses or have people who overcomplicate his word and make it seem harder to understand

But lets say we overcomplicate salvation now there to me is a problem because if something so simple as salvation is argued about then how can we discuss harder things?

 

[HeIsHere]

So you believe repentance precedes faith?

Since you are in contradiction of Ephesians 2:8 and the clear grammar on what is faith, no point preceding.

 

[Cameron143]

Hello @Cameron143 I was wondering do you think it better sometimes to view the word of God with the eyes of a child? what I mean is this children don't overcomplicate things they take everything as it is but then you have the minds of theologions who seem to be able to divide the word of God and build doctrines on cherry picked verses or have people who overcomplicate his word and make it seem harder to understand

But lets say we overcomplicate salvation now there to me is a problem because if something so simple as salvation is argued about then how can we discuss harder things?

There is generally simplicity with children, but all children are expected to put away childish things at some point. So I don't see childhood as the highest estate. But I do get your point. Understanding the outworking of salvation isn't necessary to be saved.

 

[Cameron143]

Since you are in contradiction of Ephesians 2:8 and the clear grammar on what is faith, no point preceding.

You have to believe something new to repent of something old. That something new is faith.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

as I have stated over and over in the pages of this thread ... God always makes the first move ...

God has revealed Himself in creation ... that is God making the first move. He can keep Himself hidden if / when He wants to.

God has given us the Scriptures ... that is God making the first move.

God inspires faithful believers to speak His Word to the world ... that is God making the first move.





I believe a person is born again when he or she believes.





Cameron143 and I were discussing whether natural man can understand the gospel which he or she considers foolishness.

Cameron143 and I are in agreement that natural man can understand the gospel ... some consider the gospel foolishness even though they understand.

.

“God has given us the Scriptures ... that is God making the first move.

God inspires faithful believers to speak His Word to the world ... that is God making the first move.”

exactly he’s always been making the first move from the beginning always extending his hand to mankind . We’re not incapable we’re corrupt

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There is generally simplicity with children, but all children are expected to put away childish things at some point. So I don't see childhood as the highest estate. But I do get your point. Understanding the outworking of salvation isn't necessary to be saved.

isn’t all that’s necassary is that god chooses to save you ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hello @Cameron143 I was wondering do you think it better sometimes to view the word of God with the eyes of a child? what I mean is this children don't overcomplicate things they take everything as it is but then you have the minds of theologions who seem to be able to divide the word of God and build doctrines on cherry picked verses or have people who overcomplicate his word and make it seem harder to understand

But lets say we overcomplicate salvation now there to me is a problem because if something so simple as salvation is argued about then how can we discuss harder things?

Simple

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

 

[Cameron143]

isn’t all that’s necassary is that god chooses to save you ?

I understand we believe differently about salvation, but my point was that regardless of how one comes to believe, belief is all that is necessary to be saved.

 

[Genez]

Repentance is not a work.

They get this anti "works" bug that there is no cure for.

In Jesus day works were assigned deeds to do in order to gain the approval of God.
Israel under the corrupt leadership of the Pharisees were works oriented to earn salvation.

The word 'works' (plural) was the term used for the system of the Pharisees.

That is why Jews kept asking Jesus what must one do to inherit eternal life.
When asking what one must do?
They were looking to see what works Jesus (who was being seen a strong rabbi) what works he would have for them to do.

Instead of works? At one point Jesus spoke of only ONE WORK (not works).

This was the ONE WORK Jesus prescribed to inherit eternal life.
Not works!
But, one single work.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” ​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” ​

​

John 6:28-29​

​

​

.​

​

That is how all unbelievers will be judged and condemned by their works. Not sins!
No sins will be mentioned at the final judgment. (Jesus paid for all sin).

For, when the Lord will be searching through the book of works of the unbelievers? (Revelation 20:12)
One work will always not be found for the unbeliever!
That absence of that one work will condemn them to the Lake of Fire.

That one work (not religious works system) .... will be missing.

Jesus said is only one work acceptable to God for salvation.

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” ​

See the following?

He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”​

​

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”​

Acts 16:30-31

.