Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

I simply asked you questions that reflect your comrades' sentiments about God's grace and/or his gifts.

ok ... if you have questions about something someone else said, you should ask them.

Why would I ask you questions about specific things that you have stated?

To clear up any misunderstanding. Communicating in an open forum through words typed is a little more difficult than if we were sitting in a kitchen with open bibles.

I'm asked the questions because you seem to question the biblical fact that faith is a precious gift from God.

No, I do not question that faith is a precious gift from God. Everything we are and have is a precious gift from God.

I do believe all mankind has faith ... and we either believe truth or lies. the more lies we believe, the worse off we are. Atheists believe there is no God ... pagans believe in many gods ...

If/When we hear Scripture or read Scripture and believe what we hear or read, God strengthens that little kernel of faith He so graciously placed within mankind.

We can be weak in faith or strong in faith ... the more we know of God's Word, the stronger our faith becomes because God gives increase. I do not believe we get more and more and more faith ... I believe God causes our faith to get stronger and stronger.

When the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is revealed, a person can either believe or suppress the truth in unrighteousness. When a person believes, he or she is born again.

That's just how I see this issue, Rufus ... and please note that it is God Who births Holy Spirit within the believer ... it is God Who strengthens our faith ... it is God Who matures the believer from babe in Christ to eating the meat of the Word to eating strong meat and having spiritual insight and discernment. We do not strengthen our own faith ... God does, so I am ever so thankful to Him that He gives us His Word to believe ... that He strengthens faith within each time His truth is believed ... that is all God ... the person utilizing that which God has provided is not the person "saving him or herself" ... do you think you're better than anyone else just because you breathe or think ??? ... but if we believe something God has written ... or believe God's Word when someone witnesses to us ... all of a sudden that's making God's Will subservient to ours? ridiculous!
.

 

[Mem]

That faith counts for anything is a gift. If I said, "I love you even though you're a worm," and you said, "I believe you." Should you count my love to your merit? How does that argument even make sense?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The gospel is not hid, they say. Really? Scripture says something quite different.

misrepresentation ... "the gospel is not hid by God" is what is being said ... please unstop your ears and put reading glasses on if you do not realize that after 300+ pages.

additionally, everyone agrees with what is written in 2 Cor 4:4 ... that it is the god of this world (satan, the devil) who vainly attempts to hide the gospel.

however, Who is more powerful ? ... God ... or satan ?

the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe (Rom 1:16) is much, much, much more powerful than satan ...

when the gospel of Christ is preached to an unbeliever, he or she can either believe or suppress the truth in unrighteousness ...

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth [Greek = katechō = suppress, restrain] in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vs 16-17 – hear the gospel, believe the gospel results in the power of God being unleashed to bring salvation to the believer

vs 18-19 – hear the gospel, suppress the truth in unrighteousness, no unleashing of the power of God ...
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[Genez]

Now now, @Cameron143 and @Genez let us just calm down and try to be respectful to each other debates like this can bring the worst out of us but we must treat each other with love first and foremost we can disagree on things but be respectful and mature about it

Do you believe Jesus always treated his disciples in love?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You certainly do!

nope.

The FW crowd believes that they have the ability to turn to God and that it is only when they turn to Him in faith, confess their sins and put their trust in God – that He has mercy on them and saves them. This is saying that only when I do these things will I become a child of God, thus making God's actions dependent on yours! How ridiculous!

nope ... what has been posited over many, many pages in this thread is that God always makes the first move ... God reaches out the unbeliever and the unbeliever either believes the truth or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

that is much different than what you stated ... so please try to remember that no one is saying what you claim.

I honestly believe [my opinion from listening to comments] that this line of thinking has root in the fact that you do not believe the HS is at work in you until after you are saved.

I do not believe the Holy Spirit was at work in me until I was born again. I believe the ministry of the Holy Spirit as stated by Jesus is as follows:

John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit is at work in the world ... revealing the Lord Jesus Christ ... reproving the world ... guiding the world ...

The Holy Spirit works within born again believers ... inspires believers to witness to unbelievers and reveal the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ ... this is one of the ways God makes the first move. The unbeliever who believes the gospel when it is revealed to him or her ... at that point is born again and the Holy Spirit begins His work within the new believer. Until then, Holy Spirit is external to the natural man, but working effectually nonetheless.

On the flip side, the reformed view is just the opposite! They believe that the HS is at work in His elect, performing an act which must take place prior to faith, repentance, and trust. When this work is finished then you are enabled to believe, and will certainly turn to God in faith.

to me, this means the person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which he or she is born again ... which appears to be a redundancy.

Call it forced if you wish – I call it a gift beyond measure.

I don't call it "forced" ... and, yes, God's Gift is truly beyond measure.

Your view requires an act by man, the reformed view requires an act of God.

hopefully, if you consider my response above, you will see that "[my] view" requires that God reveal Himself to the unbeliever before the unbeliever believes the gospel and is born again.

Please see my signature line below which says this is my opinion. Cameron143, Magenta, Rufus and others may not see it my way, so please don't take my views out on them!

I have signatures hidden so I don't see them ... please submit your signature in a separate post.

As far as taking your "views out on them!" ... I try to respond to each person individually and I try not to project what one person says on to others.
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[reneweddaybyday]

I'm talking about Lazarus in the grave. Made alive, then heard, or heard and then made alive?

I have heard teachings on this section of Scripture and the statement was made ... "it's a good thing Jesus specifically called out Lazarus ... otherwise all the dead would have risen and come out" (or words to that effect) ... that's how powerful the Lord Jesus Christ is [heh]
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[Blain]

Do you believe Jesus always treated his disciples in love?

Yes he did and he told us to love one another as he has love us.

 

[Genez]

We don't need power to be saved. God merely exercises His power in saving us. There is no mention of partial regeneration in scripture.

God exerts power (grace).

Causing the depravity of our flesh to shut up.

Then, our soul is free to determine what it wants to believe.

The power of God's grace made that possible.

 

[Blain]

(whatever).......

It;s not whatever, where does this concept of partial regeneration come from? I haven't found it in scripture anywhere so if it isn't in the word of god is it even truth and where does it come from if not truth?

 

[Genez]

Yes he did and he told us to love one another as he has love us.

Keep that in mind then.

Here was Jesus loving Peter.

​

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, ​

and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, ​

and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, ​

for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:21-23​

God will at times use tough love.

He does not want pampered babies.

A little rough housing is good for the soul.

 

[Cameron143]

I have heard teachings on this section of Scripture and the statement was made ... "it's a good thing Jesus specifically called out Lazarus ... otherwise all the dead would have risen and come out" (or words to that effect) ... that's how powerful the Lord Jesus Christ is [heh]
.

I've heard the same.

 

[Genez]

It;s not whatever, where does this concept of partial regeneration come from? I haven't found it in scripture anywhere so if it isn't in the word of god is it even truth and where does it come from if not truth?

You grabbed that way too soon.
Look at the post, again, please... which I edited seconds later.

 

[Blain]

Keep that in mind then.

Here was Jesus loving Peter.

​

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, ​

and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, ​

and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, ​

for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:21-23​

God will at times use tough love.

He does not want pampered babies.

A little rough housing is good for the soul.

Yes I had a feeling you would go to that but note he did not say get behind me Peter he said get behind me satan he was speaking to satan not Peter himself

 

[Blain]

God exerts power (grace).

Causing the depravity of our flesh to shut up.

Then, our soul is free to determine what it wants to believe.

The power of God's grace made that possible.

Actually this is not found anywhere in scripture either, lets say our flesh is shut up it would not be before we are regenerated because only when we are born again do we die to ourselves

 

[Cameron143]

God exerts power (grace).

Causing the depravity of our flesh to shut up.

Then, our soul is free to determine what it wants to believe.

The power of God's grace made that possible.

Scripture please.

 

[Blain]

Scripture please.

As far as I am aware there is no scripture to support it

 

[lrs68]

For a God that chooses who gets eternal life and death it's very odd that He felt the need to sacrifice Himself.

If everything is fore-ordained and predestined then truly there's not a single reason why Jesus was born and sacrificed.

If God just says this person goes here and that one there then coming down as a man and dying would have been a waste of time and not needed.

 

[Kroogz]

Yeah, they cannot get past the physical and take it into the spiritual realm. It is beyond them.

So why stay here and pound it out? By your own admission it is all beyond us and all unbelievers.

What is your point? Just to make us feel bad? We can't and will not understand your superior theology.

Why keep telling us things we can never understand? And why do you hate us because we can't understand? Your theology tells you we CANNOT.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Actually this is not found anywhere in scripture either, lets say our flesh is shut up it would not be before we are regenerated because only when we are born again do we die to ourselves

We have to overcome it by the spirit

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:5-7‬ ‭

Notice paul isn’t saying “ god is going to magically mortify the deeds of the flesh “ but he’s saying if you mortify the deeds of the flesh through the spirit you’ll live and he’s instructing then to mortify thoer earthly passions ect but not saying “ gods going to mysteriously do this for you “

we’re working together with him in this way

We do this part

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

gods working in us because we believe the gospel to change our corrupt will and actions ( the flesh issue ) however our part is to be obedient because that’s what changes us

 

[cv5]

That is an interesting question, I don't think it isn't that we can know good from evil but as far as free will goes can we freely choose good and evil when we are told we were once dead and slaves to sin?

I may have to consider this because there was cain who was told by God to rule over sin

Speaking of free, what could be more free than asking?

An innate capacity the super-determinists think impossible. Which is a direct assault against the very words of our Savior.

Ask yourself who in their right mind could possibly fail to rightly comprehend these passages @Blain. As you can see, the Holy Spirit is absolutely responsive to the WILL of the petitioner.

[Luk 11:9-13 KJV] 9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?