Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

I would like to say that if free will does exist it should be that it is not our will be done but the Lords, so whether it is important to have it or not doesn't matter in the end
I am on a personal journey of dying to my self and the more I go deeper on this journey the more I see that my will doesn't matter

It is important to note that before we come to salvation I do not believe one can choose God by their own will as it is stated that we must first be drawen to him in scripture

Jesus set you free. People confuse the ability to choose with having a will that is free. It is NOT taught in the Bible. People are slaves
to sin, blinded by the devil, taken captive to do his will even, powerless to change their incurably wicked heart from which the good fruit of faith cannot grow. That is what is taught in the Bible. What is impossible with man is possible only with God.

Romans 8 verses 9-10 ~ You are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[Blain]

Jesus set you free. People confuse the ability to choose with having a will that is free. It is NOT taught in the Bible. People are slaves
to sin, blinded by the devil, taken captive to do his will even, powerless to change their incurably wicked heart from which the good fruit of faith cannot grow. That is what is taught in the Bible. Praise God if Jesus set you free.

What is the difference between having a will and having a will that is free?

 

[Magenta]

What is the difference between having a will and having a will that is free?

Think about it Blain. What is the difference between having a dog that is chained to its doghouse, and a dog that
is allowed to run free? The natural unregenerated man acts out of his nature. He is chained to that doghouse.

Man has a will that is inherently bent away from God. He is opposed to the things of God. Scripture says so.

He has no choice but to live from the flesh because he is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God.

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Fair point I didn't consider that

Yeah my opinion (that’s all it is of course just an old fools opinion ) is that we’re corrupted and a corrupt person having free Will is doomed because thier corruption will eventually result in those actions like a doom loop

if you give a person who’s greedy and hungry for power freedom ……what will they do to acchieve it ? But if you make a persons heart good and right and fill it with the presence of the lord then what will they do with that freedom ?

i think our heart is the prince Len and not that we don’t have free Will and choice but that our corrupt hearts use that free Will for evil as well as good. And so the lord is trying to heal our hearts so that we can be free and live not die in sin but live in him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What is the difference between having a will and having a will that is free?

It’s hard to even know what each persons meaning when they say the term “ will”

i think often we have different ideas of the terms to begin with which causes a lot of misunderstanding

if I asked you blain “ what is a persons Will? “


How would you explain it to me

 

[Blain]

Think about it Blain. What is the difference between having a dog that is chained to its doghouse, and a dog that
is allowed to run free? The natural unregenerated man acts out of his nature. He is chained to that doghouse.

Man has a will that is inherently bent away from God. He is opposed to the things of God. Scripture says so.

He has no choice but to live from the flesh because he is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God.

Right so we have a will but not a free will because our will is a slave to sin and if his will resides in us then we are slaves to Christ

 

[Magenta]

Right so we have a will but not a free will because our will is a slave to sin and if his will resides in us then we are slaves to Christ

Exactly.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[Blain]

It’s hard to even know what each persons meaning when they say the term “ will”

i think often we have different ideas of the terms to begin with which causes a lot of misunderstanding

if I asked you blain “ what is a persons Will? “


How would you explain it to me

I would say to do as they please and what is right in their own minds

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I would say to do as they please and what is right in their own minds

So a persons Will is “ the ability to choose and make thier own judgements ?”


Or have I misunderstood

 

[Magenta]

I would say to do as they please and what is right in their own minds

And the person without faith? Impossible to please God. Everything not of faith is sin. The Bible says so.

But along come free willers and rewrite what Jesus said. They do that
so they can say people are good. It is the heart of the Pelagian heresy.

Out of that bad tree that is every man before being reborn, he can grow the good fruit of faith from
his incurably wicked heart according to those who do not believe what the Bible actually says.

Jesus said that was not possible.

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[Blain]

So a persons Will is “ the ability to choose and make thier own judgements ?”


Or have I misunderstood

Yeah pretty much but the thing is while we do have that it doesn't appear to be the same as free will in the sense that we are never truly free because we are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ

 

[Blain]

And the person without faith? Impossible to please God. Everything not of faith is sin. The Bible says so.

But along come free willers and rewrite what Jesus said. They do that
so they can say people are good. It is the heart of the Pelagian heresy.

Out of that bad tree that is every man before being reborn, he can grow the good fruit of faith from
his incurably wicked heart according to those who do not believe what the Bible actually says.

Well the bible mentiones two type of slaves slaves to sin and slaves to Christ, but it doesn't ever mention man as free until Christ sets us free I think it is important to remember that even Paul sdaid we are slaves to sin before we are saved he neever mentions anyone being free from it until he mentions Christ

 

[Magenta]

Well the bible mentiones two type of slaves slaves to sin and slaves to Christ, but it doesn't ever mention
man as free until Christ sets us free I think it is important to remember that even Paul sdaid we are slaves
to sin before we are saved he neever mentions anyone being free from it until he mentions Christ

Tell that to the heretics. Though it is doubtful they will listen.

Flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death.

They say the opposite. They keep ascribing to the unregenerated man what is only true of the spiritual man.

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah pretty much but the thing is while we do have that it doesn't appear to be the same as free will in the sense that we are never truly free because we are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ

Yeah you o ow those verses about being a slave ? If you look at what he’s saying he’s saying this part first

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ( they were free to yield themselves to sin and serve it or obedience ) whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

( They began to serve sin and then became servants of sin but then the gospel came )


But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


See it’s not sayong “ everyone’s born in slavery to sin it’s saying of you yield yourselves to serve sin you’ll be a servant of sin and die

 

[HeIsHere]

Yeah pretty much but the thing is while we do have that it doesn't appear to be the same as free will in the sense that we are never truly free because we are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ

Once again asserting sin = "inability" ........defined as the inability to respond positively from birth and believe in the Good News unless the person is uniquely, personally, animated (special gnosis) is false equivocation.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yeah you o ow those verses about being a slave ? If you look at what he’s saying he’s saying this part first

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; ( they were free to yield themselves to sin and serve it or obedience ) whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

( They began to serve sin and then became servants of sin but then the gospel came )


But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


See it’s not sayong “ everyone’s born in slavery to sin it’s saying of you yield yourselves to serve sin you’ll be a servant of sin and die

Thank you and that does not mean a person cannot believe the Good NEWS.

 

[Magenta]

Once again asserting sin = "inability" ........defined as the inability to respond positively from birth and believe
in the Good News unless the person is uniquely, personally, animated (special gnosis) is false equivocation.

It's called being made alive in Christ. Why do you malign it? Rhetorical question.

 

[Magenta]

Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).

 

[Magenta]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[lrs68]

Well the bible mentiones two type of slaves slaves to sin and slaves to Christ, but it doesn't ever mention man as free until Christ sets us free I think it is important to remember that even Paul sdaid we are slaves to sin before we are saved he neever mentions anyone being free from it until he mentions Christ

From what I really see coming from both viewpoints is one group says God determined who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell so humans aren't obeying anything but what God set forth until they reach their destination.

The other group says God awakens humanity one by one revealing Himself and their need for God and humanity then can decide to choose God or ultimately choose Hell.

So don't let soft explanations fool you because ultimately the 2 views I describe is what they're really saying.

So you will have to decide which view you believe.

You will either believe that God sends people to Hell to show how Sovereign He is and it's His Plan and Will that will be done
Or
That God gives man the ability to choose if he wants to follow God or not just like Romans 1, Corinthians, and Ephesians explains.