Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Romans 3 verses 11-12; Romans 8 verses 5-8; 2 Timothy 2 verses 25-26 ~ There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[Hevosmies]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

Can I take this text and make a more manly version of it?

 

[Hevosmies]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.
@Hevosmies some of our free willers fall into conniptions of condemnation because I praise God for what He did for me...

Truly makes one wonder, I mean, they deride being called out of the world? Are they not???

If they are not, they do not belong to the body of Christ. One found that statement boring.

God's work in our lives is boring to them.

Sad state of affairs. Free will theology IS by definition of the world. It pleases and tickles the ears of unbelievers and puts them on the throne and God is just a genie in a bottle that can be summoned to do their bidding. I used to attend a word of faith church and IVE SEEN THIS a lot.

You are absolutely correct we are NOT of the world, we are called out of it and if anyone is a friend of the world he is an enemy of God!

Always rejoice in what God has done in your life. Those who mock God's work are mocking GOD

 

[Hevosmies]

No, it's the TULIP people who put the cart before the horse. Salvation before the Gospel, belief before repentance, election before salvation.

The Election of Israel was on account of the patriarchs not their individual salvation. We are elected on the basis of Christ which is why the scripture says we are chosen in Him. You have to meet God's requirement before election and His requirement for the Church is to believe in the Son (who is the Gospel) just as being in the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was the requirement for Israel's election.

Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

There are many kinds of election in the Bible, some for service, some FOR SALVATION, the Bible is explicit:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

If you are trying to make the point that election in Romans 9 is national and not individual at all you would be making a mistake. The immediate context of Romans 8 is INDIVIDUALS, not nations, and the same individual context continues on in Romans 11 where branches are talked about. Branches are individual people, not nations.

Israel is indeed God's elect as a nation but remember the Bible also teaches that they are NOT ALL ISRAEL, who are OF ISRAEL. Meaning there is a remnant WITHIN Israel that is the elect.

 

[Magenta]

Can I take this text and make a more manly version of it?

Of course! ... you can highlight my post and the text will show directly under the panel, albeit small,
but you can copy it that way, or when you quote, toggle the cog icon and the text will show full size
and you can more easily remove it from the coding. Try it with this one:
(PS I write out the verse citations in a way that Logos links will not show. That is relatively new here.)

Man’s heart is deceitful above all things and incurable (Jer 17 v 9), himself full of evil (Mark 7 v 21-23), loves darkness rather than light (John 3 v 19), cannot come to God on his own (John 6 v 44), does not seek for God (Rom 3 v 10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom 5 v 6), nothing good dwells in his flesh (Rom 7 v 18), is a slave of sin (Rom 6 v 20, John 8 v 34, 2 Tim 2 v 26), cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor 2 v 14), is dead in his sins (Eph 2 v 1), is by nature a child of wrath (Eph 2 v 3), is at enmity with God (Eph 2 v 15), hostile to God and cannot submit to God's law (Rom 8 v 7), blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4 v 4), hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his evil deeds will be exposed (John 3 v 20). Therefore we rightfully conclude in accordance with the conditions described of the unregenerated man in Scripture that his inborn inclination is to reject God. Thanks be to God, Who appoints people to believe (Acts 13 v 48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph 1 v 4), predestines us to adoption (Eph 1 v 5), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim 1 v 9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thes 2 v 13), leads us to and grants us repentance (Rom 2 v 4, 2 Tim 2 v 24-25), grants the act of believing (Phil 1 v 29), works faith in the believer (John 6 v 28-29), causes us to be born again (1 Pet 1 v 3), born again not by our will, effort or desire but by His will and desire (John 1 v 12-13), grants that we come to Jesus (John 6 v 65), draws people to Himself (John 6 v 44), predestines us to salvation (Rom 8 v 29-30), and circumcises our heart (with the heart one believes [Rom 10 v 10]) as promised in Deut 30 v 6, all according to His purpose (Phil 2 v 13). The stony ground of man’s wicked heart is not good soil. A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Jesus said so! (Matt 7 v 18 + 12 v 33; Luke 6 v 43). All this and more weighed against zero verses articulating the so-called “free will” of the natural man, which is a vain man-exalting philosophically based doctrine erroneously and egregiously elevated to Bible truth. Praise God and to His glory, what is impossible with man is possible with God.

 

[Magenta]

What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?

 

[Magenta]

Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths. Praise God if Jesus has set you free!

 

[Magenta]

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[Magenta]

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Galatians 5 verse 1 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6 verse 18 Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 8 verse 9 Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2 verse 16 Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9 verse 19

 

[Magenta]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22

 

[Hevosmies]

Despite what the un-Biblical free will doctrine promoters put forth, the natural man does not have everything he needs in order to grow the good fruit of faith from the stony ground of his incurably wicked heart which is opposed to the things of God, and he cannot change himself, being a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness as a slave to sin, being inherently hostile in his mind toward God, and blinded to the truth while under the power of the evil one. Those who promote the free will of the natural man reject a plethora of Biblical truths. Praise God if Jesus has set you free!

After ALL of these you have posted it should be a done deal already. There is nothing more we can say! If people choose to not believe the verses then thats that. We do a lot of street evangelizing over here (I thought calvinism prevents people from doing that?) and when I was first getting started I kept on WASTING MY TIME debating with the Jehovah's witnesses who are also there with their signs day in and day out. The Lord revealed to me that its a FRUITLESS effort to throw pearls before swine, they do know all the arguments and they KNOW their fake bible has corrupted John 1:1 and other verses but INSIST on continuing in error. I have stopped debating with these guys and just do what God has called ME to do, and have reached a lot more people.

BTW folks I aint calling yall Jehovah's witnesses or nothing, just made a point! I bet some of you are in a process of LEARNING and GROWING. You'll get there And if not, OH WELL

 

[GWH]

Note the inconsistensy of the free willer crowd. You can will your way into salvation by choosing to believe but you cannot use that same will to STOP believing and lose your salvation. That is why I say the consistent arminian would be an open theist. If you can choose to believe, by the same logic you should be able to stop believing and therefore forfeit your eternal life. Now that creates a problem for John 10:28 which says they (THE SHEEP) will NEVER perish. What a mess!!

I was raised in the Baptist denomination to believe OSAS, but Scripture including the following revealed that belief was wrong:


Scriptures that teach the possibility of apostasy include the following:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

 

[GWH]

OK. I disagree with much you believe. I just don't see how going through it again will be of any consequence.

Okay, I understand that you disagree with what Rev. 22:17, John 3:16, Matt. 7:7, Romans 5:8, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and 1John 4:7-12 teach:

Those cited in Rev. 7:9 are "Whoever is thirsty, and whoever wishes for the water of life", which is why
the number of the saved is a great multitude [Cam's belief], because "God loves everyone and
enables them to seek salvation" [Groovy's belief].

 

[Cameron143]

Okay, I understand that you disagree with what Rev. 22:17, John 3:16, Matt. 7:7, Romans 5:8, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and 1John 4:7-12 teach:

Those cited in Rev. 7:9 are "Whoever is thirsty, and whoever wishes for the water of life", which is why
the number of the saved is a great multitude [Cam's belief], because "God loves everyone and
enables them to seek salvation" [Groovy's belief].

The verse doesn't say why the number is as it is, and I didn't give a reason other than the verse says what it says. For someone who claims to promote unity, it would probably be better if you didn't fabricate other's beliefs.
And I don't disagree with scripture; simply your understanding of it.

 

[BillyBob]

In Rom 11:25-36, we are given a very [tiny, minute] glimpse of just how intricate the plan of God actually is!
God in His wisdom uses Israel to bring the Gentiles to faith and then later, they will be shown mercy due to the mercy that we have received. It even proclaims that God committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
This is a very clear statement of God directing the events of His creation. It is a clear statement that He is in control of the events taking place on earth and in heaven. In verse 29 we are told:
[For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable] In other words, His word will stand firm.
Therefore, all who believe that their FW actions in some way may be used to alter the course of God's plan will be sadly disappointed!

His plan for us will not fail, but we are not given to understand His plan fully! We are reminded of this in 1 Corinthians 13:12.

 

[HeIsHere]

Sad state of affairs. Free will theology IS by definition of the world. It pleases and tickles the ears of unbelievers and puts them on the throne and God is just a genie in a bottle that can be summoned to do their bidding. I used to attend a word of faith church and IVE SEEN THIS a lot.

You are absolutely correct we are NOT of the world, we are called out of it and if anyone is a friend of the world he is an enemy of God!

Always rejoice in what God has done in your life. Those who mock God's work are mocking GOD

God does not bring Good News to people who are unable to respond to it positively.

Do you ever really think about what you promote, does your conscience ever falter when promoting this dogma created by Augustine?

And you say the concept of free will is worldly, lol.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

More nonsense. If you knew the Law of Moses, you would know that the "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" was relegated to judges that God set up in Israel and not for administration or retribution by private individuals. The "different mindset" is due to a different covenant; for the New Covenant would apply to far more people that just one chosen physical nation. Therefore, the New had some different rules for his new nation -- the Church. (Jesus was the new sheriff in town.) There are even rules governing Church discipline in the NT and you will not find the Lev 24 concept in those NT passages.

“More nonsense. If you knew the Law of Moses, you would know that the "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" was relegated to judges that God set up in Israel and not for administration or retribution by private individuals. “

yeah

“And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death. Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:19-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not even really worth going in the ridiculous circles you never have any merit to your positions just seemingly pull stuff from thin air just because you want so badly to argue with people

“Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them……. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:1, 23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Genez]

Sad state of affairs. Free will theology IS by definition of the world. It pleases and tickles the ears of unbelievers and puts them on the throne and God is just a genie in a bottle that can be summoned to do their bidding. I used to attend a word of faith church and IVE SEEN THIS a lot.

You are absolutely correct we are NOT of the world, we are called out of it and if anyone is a friend of the world he is an enemy of God!

Always rejoice in what God has done in your life. Those who mock God's work are mocking GOD

Word of Faith churches are another story.
Yes, they are morons.

But?

What exactly is free will theology to those who hate it?

Define it by using examples of it in action, not simply stating the term.

For I can not tell what it is that is being hated so, "free willers."
But never sure how it is seen by the ones hating it.

Make it clear, please.

For now, how it is being used?
It is only being used as a buzz word known only by those using it.

Thank you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

What exactly is free will theology to those who hate it?

Define it by using examples of it in action, not simply stating the term.

I have asked for a definition of "free willer" or "FW/FWer" and ... crickets ...

whenever the term "free will", "free willer", "FW/FWer" is loosely defined, whatever definition is provided is not something I believe ... so shrug, not talkin' about me.

example ... sorry to pick on you BillyBob, but your post with the term was just above the post Genez submitted

all who believe that their FW actions in some way may be used to alter the course of God's plan will be sadly disappointed!

nobody believes that "their FW actions ... alter the course of God's plan".
.

 

[Magenta]

dogma created by Augustine?

Inability in the Bible is plain as day for those with eyes to see. Augustine did not create it. That's just another heretical lie. To hear you and your ilk talk, the unregenerated person already has the Holy Spirit of God indwelling them. It's nonsense. But then a lot of what you and yours say directly contradicts what the Bible explicitly states. I don't think you care. You just keep repeating it anyways.

Romans 7 v 18-24a I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!