Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

I suppose the Calvinist would say everyone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness unless God intervenes?

Have you received that response, just curious?

the response I have seen is that the unregenerate has no choice but to suppress the truth in unrighteousness because they are incurably wicked, blind, under satan's influence, incapable of submitting to or obeying God, inherently hostile to God, refuse to come to the light, slave to sin, deeds are evil ... you've seen the walls of indictment.

and, yes, one must be born again in order to believe the gospel of Christ by which we are born again ... rolleyes ...

The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe is just not powerful enough to overcome the foolishness of mankind ... and the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is not enough to cover the sins of all mankind ... when Scripture is laid out line by line and very concisely presented ... there is either no response or verses are ripped from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them, conflated to the point that the Scripture is presented in a manner not intended by the Author ... I can hardly wait to get to heaven to meet these folks we have such animated dialogue with ... boy, that is going to be one heckuva fun time!!!

Revelation 21:1-7 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
.

 

[Rufus]

First I didint say they loved him “first “ you added tbat n order to argue what I said was God loved the whole world and gave his son that they could be saved ….and the ones who love him in return will be saved

abut yeah the verse I was talking about is here

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again to be clear God lived the whole world that he created and so when all was lost he sent his only begotten son in order that whosoever out of that lost world wouod repent and believe the gospel they would become his chosen people only because they are in his chosen one

he’s talking about believers of the gospel tbey have always been ordained to be saved . All the prophets foretold it whoever would believe the gospel eouod be the chosen children of God receiv Ng remission of sins


“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some of you think you are individually chosen lol your wayyyyyy off you guys are all in this same group you have to like anyone be in Christ to be acceptable and “ elect “ because he’s the only one worthy

So where in Rom 8:28-29 does it say that God foreknew who would have faith? And if the "whom" in v. 29 aren't individuals, who are they? God is the subject of this verse. He's doing all the action! The "whom" (or "those" in some translations) are recipients of the action.

 

[Magenta]

So where in Rom 8:28-29 does it say that God foreknew who would have faith? And if the "whom" in v. 29 aren't individuals, who are they? God is the subject of this verse. He's doing all the action! The "whom" (or "those" in some translations) are recipients of the action.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Cameron143]

I belive it will at some point. It is part of the conditions for the end times. I think there is some island off India where the military prevent people from making contact with the indigenous peoples. That was a tangent but I was saying at some point it will be in the whole world not just some of it. It will be preached to every tounge and nation. Not just some of it.

My point was...if John 3:16 includes every single person, why didn't God get the gospel to every single person.

 

[HeIsHere]

the response I have seen is that the unregenerate has no choice but to suppress the truth in unrighteousness because they are incurably wicked, blind, under satan's influence, incapable of submitting to or obeying God, inherently hostile to God, refuse to come to the light, slave to sin, deeds are evil ... you've seen the walls of indictment.

and, yes, one must be born again in order to believe the gospel of Christ by which we are born again ... rolleyes ...

The gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe is just not powerful enough to overcome the foolishness of mankind ... and the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is not enough to cover the sins of all mankind ... when Scripture is laid out line by line and very concisely presented ... there is either no response or verses are ripped from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them, conflated to the point that the Scripture is presented in a manner not intended by the Author ... I can hardly wait to get to heaven to meet these folks we have such animated dialogue with ... boy, that is going to be one heckuva fun time!!!

Revelation 21:1-7 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
.

Thanks, I was thinking it would be along those lines.
What you have written is so true indeed.

 

[Rufus]

You still haven't come to a correct understanding of world. It doesn't mean every single individual.

Those who sit in Darkness will never learn, never understand. Kroogz cannot see that in the verse itself, John excluded Jews from the world. So...the "world" cannot mean all men w/o exception, unless FWers believe the world consists of only Gentiles. The "but" in the passage is contrasting two categories of people. In order for the verse to be understood in the distributive sense, John would have had to include the Jews in with the world. He would have had to say something along these lines: "...not only our sins but the sins of the rest of the world". Or "...not only our sins but the sins of everyone else in the world". Therefore, "world" can only logically be understood in the qualified (limited) sense as being Gentiles.

 

[Jackson129]

My point was...if John 3:16 includes every single person, why didn't God get the gospel to every single person.

He did. The gospel is just one part of God's revelation of himself. He declares himself in the heavens and the earth in all creation. The gospel as you are using it started with Jesus then went to 12 then went to thousands then millions then billions. As a more precise "gospel " to what was always there.

 

[Rufus]

So God yanked your head back.
Put a golden funnel in your mouth...
And, poured salvation into you!

Then He slapped you on your behind.
Made you born again.
And, then, sent you on your way?

God predetermined when you should be born and living on earth.
Because, if He predetermined that you were to be born during the Church age?
It would mean, He chose you in Him before the foundations of the earth to become the Bride of Christ!

That is what we have been chosen for!
Not chosen to believe.
But, chosen for what our salvation would entail,
because He knew (that with the help of his grace) we would want to believe.

Without grace, none of us could believe.
Grace divides and separates our souls from our depravity.
And, while under GRACE... He will have our soul made able to freely choose!

That is why it says...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, ​

it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9​

​

If we could do works to gain salvation?
Then salvation would have been of ourselves!

We are not saved by doing works!
(Works is in the plural!)

Meaning, "works" were divised systems of telling people the things that they must do to inherit eternal life.
Hence... "religion."

But, there is only one sole work alone that saves and God honors.
Not works!
But, one work.

And, this is that one work!

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)​

Really. That is all it is folks!

One work (faith). Not works! "Believing."
Not, performing deeds assigned by men to gain the approval of God.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”



Just one work!
Believe!
Saved!


.​

So, the "Bride of Christ" is a mixed bag: unbelievers and believers? You play a lousy game of semantics. You can't even understand Jn 6:29: Faith is God's WORK. It's not the work of man since all men naturally hate God. Jesus often employed the literary device of "play on words". The sovereign work of God is the gift of faith; man's responsibility is to believe.

 

[Magenta]

I suppose the Calvinist would say everyone suppresses the truth in unrighteousness unless God intervenes?

The Bible believer would say those who practice evil suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that is what the Bible says. Then it becomes a question of who practices evil? Sin is evil. Everyone sins. There are none good! This is another Bible truth free willing folks deny. The words of Jesus are rewritten so instead of Him saying everyone who sins is a slave to sin, He says everyone who chooses to sin is a slave to sin. Then we are told that only atheists choose to sin! It is astounding the twisting and denying of Scripture that goes on by free willers.

 

[Rufus]

Look at him spew all this light and love. Is there actually a Christian church that exist full of people who act like this.?

But there are plenty of "Christian" churches who hate the light and love the darkness, as evidenced by their false gospel. You know you love the darkness. Your heart is filled with pride and arrogance; for you refuse to see yourself as a helpless, self-destructive human being. What YOU desperately need is to have an Isaiah moment (Isa 6). Isaiah was graciously given this majestic vision of God. But he didn't brag about it. He didn't boast about it. He didn't pat himself on the back and think how lucky he was to have "won the lottery", etc., etc. Instead the vision totally humbled him and brought him low. Once he got a real glimpse of God's holiness and glory, he realized just how much he was UNLIKE his Creator and Redeemer. God was everything he was not and could never be without His effectual grace.

 

[Cameron143]

He did. The gospel is just one part of God's revelation of himself. He declares himself in the heavens and the earth in all creation. The gospel as you are using it started with Jesus then went to 12 then went to thousands then millions then billions. As a more precise "gospel " to what was always there.

The heavens declare the glory of God, but they aren't the power of God unto salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

My point was...if John 3:16 includes every single person, why didn't God get the gospel to every single person.[/QUOTE/]

That’s what the commission was about …

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who hasn’t heard of Jesus ? And a Bible on this earth ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The heavens declare the glory of God, but they aren't the power of God unto salvation.

Indeed the heavens are temporary his word is forever

“Heaven and earth shall pass away,

but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Jackson129]

The heavens declare the glory of God, but they aren't the power of God unto salvation.

But it gave a way for the people before the gospel to acknowledge an all mighty god. It was a way for them to be reconciled before the gospel. The way you are making it sound is if you were born in a time and place before the law or the gospel then you automatically go to the lake of fire.

 

[Rufus]

HeIsHere said:


People hate gifts, see that every single day. Oh right they only hate the gift from God!

I guess the disciples were forced to follow Christ Jesus around to!

Actually, I think the Father FORCED Jesus into being their protecting, guarding, loving Shepherd. I mean...Jesus did take the credit for losing none (save for the son of perdition) in Jn 17. So, do you read that as Jesus brow-beating, coercing, manipulating, forcing the 11 to keep them in line?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

But there are plenty of "Christian" churches who hate the light and love the darkness, as evidenced by their false gospel. You know you love the darkness. Your heart is filled with pride and arrogance; for you refuse to see yourself as a helpless, self-destructive human being. What YOU desperately need is to have an Isaiah moment (Isa 6). Isaiah was graciously given this majestic vision of God. But he didn't brag about it. He didn't boast about it. He didn't pat himself on the back and think how lucky he was to have "won the lottery", etc., etc. Instead the vision totally humbled him and brought him low. Once he got a real glimpse of God's holiness and glory, he realized just how much he was UNLIKE his Creator and Redeemer. God was everything he was not and could never be without His effectual grace.

his grace is available to anyone …..you should step into it

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( his grace and truth in the gospel will teach you that )

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; ( and that )

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods grace isn’t the reason we don’t need to repent and obey him it’s the gift he’s given us so we can and be saved

 

[Rufus]

I dont get why they feel special according to them they got randomly plucked out of the void for no ryme or reason. Thats the opposite of being special. Thats getting lucky.

But you, on the other hand, aren't so "lucky"' for you are totally stuck on stupid straw men arguments.

 

[GWH]

Thanks, and who are those cited in Rev. 7:9?
Whoever is thirsty, and whoever wishes for the water of life per Rev. 22:17.
No wonder the number is a great multitude, because God loves everyone and prevents no one from seeking salvation!
(John 3:16, Romans 5:8, 1Tim. 2:3-4, 1John 4:7-12)

To Cam

 

[Magenta]

The heavens declare the glory of God, but they aren't the power of God unto salvation.

Esoterics claim the stars tell the gospel (called the "Gospel in the Stars" theory), but who listens to them?.

 

[Hevosmies]

The Bible believer would say those who practice evil suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that is what the Bible says. Then it becomes a question of who practices evil? Sin is evil. Everyone sins. There are none good! This is another Bible truth free willing folks deny. The words of Jesus are rewritten so instead of Him saying everyone who sins is a slave to sin, He says everyone who chooses to sin is a slave to sin. Then we are told that only atheists choose to sin! It is astounding the twisting and denying of Scripture that goes on by free willers.

Note the inconsistensy of the free willer crowd. You can will your way into salvation by choosing to believe but you cannot use that same will to STOP believing and lose your salvation. That is why I say the consistent arminian would be an open theist. If you can choose to believe, by the same logic you should be able to stop believing and therefore forfeit your eternal life. Now that creates a problem for John 10:28 which says they (THE SHEEP) will NEVER perish. What a mess!!