More misrepresentation.
Oh and maybe you ought to read the Bible because Jesus told his disciples they did not choose Him. Now let's all watch you jump to He forced them...
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Oh and maybe you ought to read the Bible because Jesus told his disciples they did not choose Him. Now let's all watch you jump to He forced them...
What does CDS stand for?
I am in COMPLETE agreement with you! Most of these guys I am reading are SEMI-PELAGIANS, not arminians or molinists! Odds are either these are hyper grace believers or folks who deny original sin completely and think mankind is generally good. I suggest they read up on the news and read some history. Mankind is DEFINITELY not good.
But aint it great that we are given GRACE, born again from above, given the Holy Spirit and KEPT by the Lord.
John 6:37
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never cast out.
They were not forced to do so. Apparently you dont even UNDERSTAND what you are trying to critique! You are attacking a strawman NOBODY believes.
When God turns someones heart of stone into a heart of flesh, their will is FREED from the bondage it was in. Which means they WILLINGLY then choose to follow Christ. No one is being FORCED to do anything. Just like the wicked arent FORCED into their sin, they love their sins!
The gift of God is eternal life, but its not getting a gift basket here on earth!
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,
Some of them are full on Pelalagin heretics. They outright deny that none are good and minimize all found what the Bible has to say about the fallen estate of man.
Stop with the games.
This is what you actually mean, including all the other calvies here:
They will not and cannot come unless God SAVES you first.
God always acts first. And He saves those who BELIEVE His Gospel.
So they actually act like this in real life? Not just the land of internets where you can be your true self without human repercussions?
Seems to me the days of serious dialogue have long ended, we all know Calvinism is injected into scripture and Calvinist have that blinder on.
Wow, "Nobody believes" I guess Jesus was the false hope messiah then, "Believe in me" ... oh wait nope you cannot actually do that. oopsies!
I must admit I got lazy and havent read all the 282 pages. I'll stick around and see but so far in the first two pages and in the last few pages. IT AINT LOOKING TOO GOOD
I hope that God has saved em and they are a work in progress when it comes to understanding the Bible. IF NOT, debating with them will be a waste of time. As we know: The carnal man CANNOT receive spiritual truth. And this type of truth HURTS, because you are simply helpless in front of God and you need His grace.
Fallen estate of man and grace go hand in hand, if you dont have a fallen man in Adam, grace is simply NOT NEEDED. You could just pull yourself up and start acting right.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 2 Corinthians 5:19 ... 1 John 2:2
There are other uses of the word "world (Greek = kosmos)" which Thayer's has broken down ... examples:
1 John 2:
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Thayer's definition 7: worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
1 John 2:15-16 refers to the systems of the world which are controlled by the prince of this world who is opposed to God and the things of God. The systems of this world are set up to draw people away from God in an effort to entice people to sin against God.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Thayer's definition 6: the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven andearth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands
Thayer's definition 3: the world, i. e. the universe
an interesting study ...
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So wouldn't that mean it goes out to all people since all people are part of creation? If it was only going out to some people it would only be going out to some of creation. Then the word used wouldn't be kosmos any more.
It really has, did you read my message? I didnt say no one believes in Christ. I said you are attacking a STRAWMAN that no one believes: NO ONE BELIEVES God forced the Apostles to follow Jesus.
Why do you assume that being given a command means you are CAPABLE of doing so? Being given a command is God telling us His righteous STANDARD, what He requires of us.
Jesus said BE YE PERFECT as your heavenly Father is perfect. Are we capable of doing that?
Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)
Didn't Abel's blood cry out from the Earth to God?
Peter wrote that God will purify the Earth with fire. That's how it must happen to remove sins like the murder of Abel and the sins of all living things on and in the Earth.
We're told in the Bible being Saved and going through trials is like Gold and Silver being purified by fire.
So yes, the DIRT needs to be Regenerated.
I went to a few Reformed churches before I really understood what they taught.
Some were fine, but there was always that sense of being special.
That didn't work too well once I had children... so disturbing I really do not know how anyone can have a child and adhere to Calvinist ideas, makes me ill.
It grew tiresome so I left and then began to understand.
I see, day by day I suppose. Can we tell the farmers they can cut down on fertilizer too?
No games. I simply believe what the Bible says:
John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
And if you try to claim this drawing is just "WOOING" as Dave Hunt said, NOPE. IT AINT. Those drawn WILL COME, guaranteed:
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Some of them explicitly say that spiritual revelation is not necessary and in fact they try to shame those who have personal experience with God... they say it makes God unfair for Him to reveal Himself to a person if it is not exactly the same way as He did to another and yet beginning to end, the Bible is full of such examples. So they make these statements that are totally false and expect us to believe they're promoting the truth.
I will admit I barely read you post, I cannot help it they are very disturbing (due to the Calvinist bent) after a while.
I read the same tactic of conflating.
The call to belief is not Him saying you cannot do it, that makes no sense.
The call to be complete happens in Christ and so it is real.
Agreed! Yet, it should be obvious to the reader that the "World" means mankind in many verses and a "cosmic system" in others.
But the cosmic system can convince otherwise!
Great post.
The Bible is God acting first.
The heavens declaring the glory of God is God acting first.
The believer witnessing to you ... me ... all who have posted in this thread is God acting first.
Romans 1:16-18 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.
When the gospel of Christ is presented, a person either believes or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.
The believer receives the blessing promised by God.
The unbeliever receives the consequence of having rejected.
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