Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Re "So you argue from silence. Not a good strategy.": When the Bible is silent regarding a topic,
noting that Scripture does NOT say God hates half of humanity and favors the half He does not sent do hell
is better than saying that God DOES hate the half He condemns and favors those He elects.

I take it that the super-determinists love their power trip superiority complex.

God chose me and didn't choose you nanny nanny foo foo.

Pretty disturbing if you ask me.

 

[cv5]

Well, let us be clear. The Bible very plainly says, The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. So if the Bereans were already accepting the Spiritual things of God, by believing the Bible, and accepting the conclusions Paul was elucidating for them, well, Cam, it is a good thing your first born is grown and can probably run fast... hopefully, very, very fast...

Inevitably, the super-determinists arguments devolve into inchoate ranting in the face of rightly divided Biblical truth.
The "born saved" Pharisees had the exact same problem, and consequently were facing an even BIGGER problem.

[Col 2:22 KJV]
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

[Mat 15:9 KJV]
But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[GWH]

"Works minded people" were like the Muslims are today.
If you do so many good deeds?
More good than the bad?
Allah will receive you.

Salvation by works was rampant in both the Jewish and Gentile thinking and religions.
Those passages you gave were showing them to stop doing good deeds to try to win God's approval.

Christianity declares that God receives those who believe in Him-that's all! Forget the works!

Yes, forget the works done to earn salvation but remember to do good deeds motivated by God’s love.

 

[GWH]

You are stuck in this Calvinistic insanity that makes no sense!
Who got you started on this idea?
And, why?

Here. Let's sort it out.

"God, you owe it to me!"​

(why would someone say that?)​

​

For example...

That could be the demand of a works obsessed Pharisee!

And, because of the teachings and the followers of the legalism prevalent back then, many were doing good works as to make God obligated to save them!

Here is the example Jesus gave of those who thought God was obligated to save them.


Luke 18:9-14

​

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, ​

Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other ​

a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like ​

other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week ​

and give a tenth of all I get.’​

​

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast ​

and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’​

​

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”​

grace and peace!

Perhaps they say God owes me election because they blame God for not saving them from doing evil? Rather logical per their way of thinking.

 

[GWH]

God will play bass!

And, we will play fiddle.

All the Calvinists will play tambourine and stand in the middle!

HEE HAW!


.

Fiddling requires playing by ear. Sorry, I can’t do that, so give me some sheet music for second violin.

 

[GWH]

Were you not called out of the world? No, according to your theology, apparently you were not.

According to the lies you tell, everybody hears, the gospel is not hid, and God is unfair.

That is not even addressing how you misrepresent those you disagree with.

No, according to Jesus and Paul we are called to be witnesses IN and TO the world. Remember Mag, when pointing accusations at someone, three fingers point at you.

 

[GWH]

Totally backwards! Jesus sovereignly initiated a "saving relationship" with his first visit to the blind man in Jn 9, whom He chose out of a large crowd most likely. Ditto for Eve in the Garden. God sovereignly reconciled Eve unto himself -- and He didn't even ask for her permission, any more than Jesus did with the blind man.

Thanks for illustrating that your ilk refuses to affirm the Gospel kerygma,
thereby promoting division in the church of Christ.

 

[GWH]

Most especially because you FWers believe that sinners still have mucho ability to resist "divine enabling" with the power of their "freewill". In fact, God's grace ("divine enabling") is so impotent that the vast majority of sinners wind up in hell.

Yes, we MFWers believe God created humans in His image, which means with MFW, and that God continues to enable MFW, which means being able to seek salvation or not, which is what makes God just for enforcing moral law via sending unrepentant sinners to hell.

 

[GWH]

Since you mock God's sovereignty and his election, then you won't be too disappointed on the Last Day if things should not go for you as you think they will. Then you can boast for all eternity about how lucky or blessed you are that God never did
"select" you after all.

No, we affirm both God’s sovereignty and His love, whereas you mock or blaspheme God’s love for all people.

 

[GWH]

Were you not chosen? Hmmm. Sad if you weren't, but God is good and knows what He is doing.

And equally sad if you aren’t.
God doesn’t show favoritism.

 

[GWH]

Acts 17:

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

vs 10 – Paul and Silas went to Berea and taught in the synagogue. According to vs 3, Paul and Silas were itinerant preachers who taught the gospel of Christ.

vs 11 – the Bereans received [Greek = dechomai = willingly accepted] ... not the same word as lambanō, which we went over extensively a while back ... then they searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things ... the things they heard ... were so

vs 12 – therefore ... why for is the therefore there for? ... as a consequence of hearing (vs 10), willingly accepting and confirming the truth of what they were hearing (vs 11), they then believed (vs 12).

"*cough*" ... these were natural men ... some were Jews who had been brought up in the Jewish tradition ... some were Greeks ... but they were not born again before Paul and Silas came to Berea to teach the gospel.

once they believed and were born again ... then they were able to delve a little more deeply into the "Spiritual things of God".

and please note ... Paul and Silas traveling from place to place preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is God reaching out to the lost ... God making the first move ... men and women can either believe and receive the blessing or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.





according to Acts 17:11, the Bereans received before they believed the gospel whereby they were born again.





The Bereans did not consider what Paul and Silas taught as "foolishness" and they were able to understand enough to be able to search the Scriptures daily whether the things they were being taught lined up with Scripture.





according to Acts 17:3, Paul and Silas were preaching the gospel

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

The Bereans heard the gospel, willingly received the gospel (iow, they did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness), searched the Scriptures to confirm what they were hearing was truth ... then believed.

you can manipulate all you want in your own mind ... but Scripture plainly lays out the sequence for those who are more in line with the Bereans (i.e. search the Scriptures daily whether those things were so).
.

Yes, and Paul also believed in God and the OT before the NT Gospel was revealed to him.

 

[GWH]

I take it that the super-determinists love their power trip superiority complex.

God chose me and didn't choose you nanny nanny foo foo.

Pretty disturbing if you ask me.

And divisive, which is why I wonder why the administrators permit such argumentation any more than they did that of the Judaizers and Sabbatarians who were canceled. (My guess is because at this point it has been going on so long that they feel like a precedent for allowing it has been established—sort of like the Supreme Court thinks.)

 

[Magenta]

John 14 v 17a, Romans 8 v 6-9 ~ “Inability” in Bible The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Praise be to God for calling me out of the world.

 

[HeIsHere]

Not a single parable uttered by Jesus had any component that spoke to super-determinism. Quite the contrary.

The Old Covenant was offered by God, and was entered into by the nation Israel by their permissive free will decision and informed consent.

The New Covenant offered by God is only entered into by the express permissive free will and informed consent of every individual without exception.

Rahab RECEIVED the spies.
Nineveh RECEIVED the prophet.
The Gibeonites EARNESTLY SOUGHT to enter into the covenant of life and peace.

All of these made RIGHT choices in accordance with their free will and hearts DESIRE.

Indeed and it demonstrates quite clearly God is a rewarder of FAITH!
It is what pleases God.

The doctrine of total inability is about as dumb as it gets.

 

[cv5]

And divisive, which is why I wonder why the administrators permit such argumentation any more than they did that of the Judaizers and Sabbatarians who were canceled. (My guess is because at this point it has been going on so long that they feel like a precedent for allowing it has been established—sort of like the Supreme Court thinks.)

Agree. Super-determinism is grandfathered in and strongly entrenched and supported by big-name denominations and religious authorities.

 

[Magenta]

The doctrine of total inability is about as dumb as it gets.

You say that because you contradict and outright deny quite a few things the Bible explicitly articulates.

You claim everybody hears. Jesus said otherwise. You claim the gospel is not hid. Scripture attests otherwise.

You change cannot to can. You don't seem to understand what it is to be called out of the world.

You do not make the distinctions Scripture does in quite a few places. You and many others ascribe
to the unregenerated man qualities and abilities possessed only by the regenerated man. You
have to in order to prop up your vain man-exalting philosophically based false doctrine. Y'all
have been taken captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human
tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

 

[cv5]

You say that because you contradict and outright deny quite a few things the Bible explicitly articulates.

You claim everybody hears. Jesus said otherwise. You claim the gospel is not hid. Scripture attests otherwise.

You change cannot to can. You don't seem to understand what it is to be called out of the world.

You do not make the distinctions Scripture does in quite a few places. You and many others ascribe
to the unregenerated man qualities and abilities possessed only by the regenerated man. You
have to in order to prop up your vain man-exalting philosophically based false doctrine.

Oh.....no Scriptures this time around either I see. Just more philosophical musing and ranting.

But this is eminently predictable and inevitable.

 

[cv5]

And divisive, which is why I wonder why the administrators permit such argumentation any more than they did that of the Judaizers and Sabbatarians who were canceled. (My guess is because at this point it has been going on so long that they feel like a precedent for allowing it has been established—sort of like the Supreme Court thinks.)

Whatever the admins think, this debate has long been concluded in favor of the MFW-ers.

It wasn't even close.

 

[lrs68]

You say that because you contradict and outright deny quite a few things the Bible explicitly articulates.

You claim everybody hears. Jesus said otherwise. You claim the gospel is not hid. Scripture attests otherwise.

You change cannot to can. You don't seem to understand what it is to be called out of the world.

You do not make the distinctions Scripture does in quite a few places. You and many others ascribe
to the unregenerated man qualities and abilities possessed only by the regenerated man. You
have to in order to prop up your vain man-exalting philosophically based false doctrine.

Jesus said to Go and make Disciples. He didn't say go and find them because they've been chosen or PREDESTINED. Jesus commands to preach to everyone.

 

[cv5]

Jesus said to Go and make Disciples. He didn't say go and find them because they've been chosen or PREDESTINED. Jesus commands to preach to everyone.

Its so over.......