Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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*cough* Bereans already believed the Bible. They already accepted the Spiritual things of God.

What does Scripture say about this? It does not say that the natural man can accept these things.

No. It says the opposite. Therefore, the logical conclusion is...

Oh, wait. What do you say, Cam? Can we expect logic from these fine free willing folks?
 
*cough* Bereans already believed the Bible. They already accepted the Spiritual things of God.

What does Scripture say about this? It does not say that the natural man can accept these things.

No. It says the opposite. Therefore, the logical conclusion is...

Oh, wait. What do you say, Cam? Can we expect logic from these fine free willing folks?
I was trying to lay low. So much for that. It will probably cost me my firstborn, but I don't anticipate logic.
 
I was trying to lay low. So much for that. It will probably cost me my firstborn, but I don't anticipate logic.
Well, let us be clear. The Bible very plainly says, The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. So if the Bereans were already accepting the Spiritual things of God, by believing the Bible, and accepting the conclusions Paul was elucidating for them, well, Cam, it is a good thing your first born is grown and can probably run fast... hopefully, very, very fast...
 
Well, let us be clear. The Bible very plainly says, The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. So if the Bereans were already accepting the Spiritual things of God, by believing the Bible, and accepting the conclusions Paul was elucidating for them, well, Cam, it is a good thing your first born is grown and can probably run fast... hopefully, very, very fast...
It's a good point, and I've noticed few other posts that could have been challenged, but didn't see anything productive coming from engagement so I didn't respond. Plus, I have no further private information to share any longer.
 
*cough* Bereans already believed the Bible. They already accepted the Spiritual things of God.

What does Scripture say about this? It does not say that the natural man can accept these things.
Acts 17:

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

vs 10 – Paul and Silas went to Berea and taught in the synagogue. According to vs 3, Paul and Silas were itinerant preachers who taught the gospel of Christ.

vs 11 – the Bereans received [Greek = dechomai = willingly accepted] ... not the same word as lambanō, which we went over extensively a while back ... then they searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things ... the things they heard ... were so

vs 12 – therefore ... why for is the therefore there for? ... as a consequence of hearing (vs 10), willingly accepting and confirming the truth of what they were hearing (vs 11), they then believed (vs 12).

"*cough*" ... these were natural men ... some were Jews who had been brought up in the Jewish tradition ... some were Greeks ... but they were not born again before Paul and Silas came to Berea to teach the gospel.

once they believed and were born again ... then they were able to delve a little more deeply into the "Spiritual things of God".

and please note ... Paul and Silas traveling from place to place preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is God reaching out to the lost ... God making the first move ... men and women can either believe and receive the blessing or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.




The Bible very plainly says, The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God

according to Acts 17:11, the Bereans received before they believed the gospel whereby they were born again.





Magenta said:
but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit
The Bereans did not consider what Paul and Silas taught as "foolishness" and they were able to understand enough to be able to search the Scriptures daily whether the things they were being taught lined up with Scripture.




Magenta said:
So if the Bereans were already accepting the Spiritual things of God, by believing the Bible, and accepting the conclusions Paul was elucidating for them
according to Acts 17:3, Paul and Silas were preaching the gospel

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

The Bereans heard the gospel, willingly received the gospel (iow, they did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness), searched the Scriptures to confirm what they were hearing was truth ... then believed.

you can manipulate all you want in your own mind ... but Scripture plainly lays out the sequence for those who are more in line with the Bereans (i.e. search the Scriptures daily whether those things were so).

.
 
If you compare the complete Reformed Doctrine it is 100% opposite of the Great Commission in Matthew 28 where Jesus [(COMMANDS)] to GO make Disciples and Baptize them.

The Reformed Doctrine is about people being saved (predestined by God before the foundation of the world) so no need to go and make Disciples. It's the very opposite of what Jesus said.

I will never willingly do something that goes against what Jesus commanded.
 
It's a good point, and I've noticed few other posts that could have been challenged, but didn't see anything productive
coming from engagement so I didn't respond. Plus, I have no further private information to share any longer.
Wait, what??? No credit card number is forthcoming???
 
As well, total inability is destroyed by Acts 17.

10 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

They searched the scripture for the accuracy of the claim.
If it was all foolishness why would they bother?
Funny how scripture never once explicitly states God regenerated them and they believed.
Not a single parable uttered by Jesus had any component that spoke to super-determinism. Quite the contrary.

The Old Covenant was offered by God, and was entered into by the nation Israel by their permissive free will decision and informed consent.

The New Covenant offered by God is only entered into by the express permissive free will and informed consent of every individual without exception.

Rahab RECEIVED the spies.
Nineveh RECEIVED the prophet.
The Gibeonites EARNESTLY SOUGHT to enter into the covenant of life and peace.

All of these made RIGHT choices in accordance with their free will and hearts DESIRE.
 
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fruituntodeath.png

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)
 
They have to break God's word to know experientially good and evil. You can accept my earlier explanation or not. It's not I haven't considered such verses. I have. I'll leave you with 2 thoughts:
1. Implicit in any command is that following the command is good. Not to follow is not good. God even told Adam that not to do so would have consequence. Are we to believe Adam thought the consequence of disobedience would be good? So, empirically, Adam knew of the existence of good and evil.
2. If everything God made was good and very good, Adam's experience of creation was an experience of good. He would not only have experienced good from creation, He would also have experienced it in his interactions with God. What he had not experienced was evil. By sinning, he came to experience evil.

instead of explaining it again look at what he said

“but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The knowledge of good and evil is not meant for mankind. Because it makes us like this …puts us in this bind

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

It’s the conflicting part of the knowledge of good and evil they are opposites so they pull at us in opposite directions we aren’t meant for good and evil . We’re meant for the things God said are true like for Adam if he would have remained here believing what God said about the knowledge of good and evil, not the knowledge of only good or very good but the conflicting knowledge of good and evil

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the word Adam is made for to trust his creators word. So he would know “ I must not eat from this tree particularly because it’s deadly for me “

If Adam would have just trusted that word from God he would have been fine but he hearkened into the voice of his wife and ate and what happened to them ?

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now they know good and evil they have changed from what they were inside now they know good and evil and must choose between the two again that’s why I quoted all this to you “the fall “caused this situation of good and evil

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That’s continual tbrough scripture nt and old again which is the reason lol I had worked all those

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s like tbat because of what Adam did he put mankind in a bind between good and evil having it within us in our minds and hearts where knowledge lives. They weren’t made to make thier own determinations bit to live this way

“Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That’s our design to have a relationship with God and trust what he’s saying learning from him like a child and father or even student and teacher . If we trust Gods word he will never lead us astray or i to danger or anything negative but he will teach us his ways and we will dwell with him forever adam, cain , isreal , all creation has the same opportunity


“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭K
JV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or evil.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

many should consider this simple statement

The eyes of the Lord are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭

Or this one

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s only because of the foret transgression and mankind having the knowledge of good and evil in us now we have to overcome the evil and choose the good. Thankfully we have the gospel
 
We finally agree on something!
Saul became Paul because he was Pual........:)

This is what google found:

"The Pual stem is the passive form of the Piel formation in Biblical Hebrew. The Pual stem is usually indicated by a daghesh in the middle consonsant of the Verb and a qibbuts vowel under the first consonant. Generally speaking, the Pual stem expresses the passive voice of the meaning of a verb in the Piel stem. Scholars sometimes disagree whether certain verb forms should be classified as belonging to the Pual, the Hophal, or the Qal Passive stems. In English, passive action is expressed using the helping verb “to be.” In Biblical Hebrew, the passive nature of the verbal action is expressed by the Pual form of the verb itself without any helping verbs."

Nothing about the meaning being "chosen".
 
"Choose for yourselves" to deny the choosing so noted here @Rufus @Magenta
And remember......God is weighing your free will choice to deny His Word in this matter of choosing on His scales of judgement.
In this of course you have no choice.

[Jos 24:15 NKJV]
"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose H977 for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

[Deu 30:19 KJV]
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose H977 life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


The KJV translates Strong's H977 in the following manner: choose (77x), chosen (77x), choice (6x), choose...out (5x), acceptable (1x), appoint (1x), excellent (1x), chosen men (1x), rather (1x), require

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to choose, elect, decide for
    1. (Qal) to choose
    2. (Niphal) to be chosen
    3. (Pual) to be chosen, selected

Google found this: "The Pual stem is the passive form of the Piel formation in Biblical Hebrew. The Pual stem is usually indicated by a daghesh in the middle consonsant of the Verb and a qibbuts vowel under the first consonant. Generally speaking, the Pual stem expresses the passive voice of the meaning of a verb in the Piel stem. Scholars sometimes disagree whether certain verb forms should be classified as belonging to the Pual, the Hophal, or the Qal Passive stems. In English, passive action is expressed using the helping verb “to be.” In Biblical Hebrew, the passive nature of the verbal action is expressed by the Pual form of the verb itself without any helping verbs."

Are you saying that pual is the passive form of the Hebrew word for chosen? What word?
 
So you argue from silence. Not a good strategy. But you love to contradict and deny what Scripture
explicitly says when it does not align with your pet man-exalting philosophically based doctrine.
Like telling us the gospel is not hid, and everyone hears.

Re "So you argue from silence. Not a good strategy.": When the Bible is silent regarding a topic,
noting that Scripture does NOT say God hates half of humanity and favors the half He does not sent do hell
is better than saying that God DOES hate the half He condemns and favors those He elects.
 
Well, let us be clear. The Bible very plainly says, The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. So if the Bereans were already accepting the Spiritual things of God, by believing the Bible, and accepting the conclusions Paul was elucidating for them, well, Cam, it is a good thing your first born is grown and can probably run fast... hopefully, very, very fast...

And the Bible very clearly teaches that a sinner receives the Spirit when he/she believes the Gospel as revealed,
as in Romans 1-5:

1. Romans 1:16 says the Gospel reveals that (s/e) is for “everyone who believes”, both Jew and Gentile.

2. Romans 1:17 describes s/e as “righteousness from God” that is by faith “from first to last” or from creation until the end.

3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

5. Romans 2:6 affirms what is called karma by saying that “God will give to each person according to what he has done”, which (in Gal. 6:7-9) is called reaping what a person sows.

6. Romans 2:7 speaks of the need for “persistence in doing good” and seeking glory, honor and immortality in order to receive s/e or eternal life, which echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

9. Romans 3:20-21 states the law makes souls conscious of sin and that “the Law and Prophets testify” or prepare the way for the new revelation of righteousness from God apart from the Law, which takes up where Romans 1:17 left off.

10. Romans 3:22a says that “righteousness from God” or s/e comes through faith “in Jesus Christ” (cf. Eph. 2:8), a phrase Paul used eleven times in Ephesians 1:3-14 to indicate s/e.

11. Romans 3:22b says that God’s righteousness is given “to all who believe—there is no difference”” signifying that all sinners may believe or be s/e (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Tit. 2:11), because there is no favoritism (#7).

12. Romans 3:23 teaches that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, meaning that no one can be good enough to earn salvation because of their own merit.

13. Romans 3:24 says sinners “are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (via faith per v.22, cf. 3:27-28); s/e is free because Christ paid the price/cost.

14. Romans 3:25a explains redemption as being “a sacrifice of atonement” for those who have faith in Christ’s work of dying in their place.

15. Romans 3:25b further explains that God demonstrated his just patience (#3) or forbearance in leaving unpunished those sins committed before the revealing of the Gospel (foreshadowed in Gen. 22:8 & 13), implying that sinners had/have the opportunity to believe and be s/e thereby demonstrating God’s justice/not showing favoritism (#11).

16. Romans 3:26 continues to emphasize divine justice by declaring it three ways (“justice…, just…, justifies”), which justness is synonymous with righteousness (2Thes. 1:5-6, Heb. 6:10).

17. Romans 4:1-25 presents Abraham as a Gentile who became the physical father of the Jews and the spiritual father of all who choose to have faith in God/Christ.

18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.

19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.

20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
 
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Here are other passages about regeneration through the agency of faith. Rejecting by not believing is no life. That's not too complicated to understand.

. . . that BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE through his name. -- John 20:31

. . . he that BELIEVETH NOT the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE . . . -- John 3:36

. . . For ye are all the CHILDREN of God BY FAITH in Christ Jesus. -- Gal. 3:26
 
Acts 17:

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

vs 10 – Paul and Silas went to Berea and taught in the synagogue. According to vs 3, Paul and Silas were itinerant preachers who taught the gospel of Christ.

vs 11 – the Bereans received [Greek = dechomai = willingly accepted] ... not the same word as lambanō, which we went over extensively a while back ... then they searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things ... the things they heard ... were so

vs 12 – therefore ... why for is the therefore there for? ... as a consequence of hearing (vs 10), willingly accepting and confirming the truth of what they were hearing (vs 11), they then believed (vs 12).

"*cough*" ... these were natural men ... some were Jews who had been brought up in the Jewish tradition ... some were Greeks ... but they were not born again before Paul and Silas came to Berea to teach the gospel.

once they believed and were born again ... then they were able to delve a little more deeply into the "Spiritual things of God".

and please note ... Paul and Silas traveling from place to place preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is God reaching out to the lost ... God making the first move ... men and women can either believe and receive the blessing or suppress the truth in unrighteousness and receive the consequence.





according to Acts 17:11, the Bereans received before they believed the gospel whereby they were born again.





The Bereans did not consider what Paul and Silas taught as "foolishness" and they were able to understand enough to be able to search the Scriptures daily whether the things they were being taught lined up with Scripture.





according to Acts 17:3, Paul and Silas were preaching the gospel

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

The Bereans heard the gospel, willingly received the gospel (iow, they did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness), searched the Scriptures to confirm what they were hearing was truth ... then believed.

you can manipulate all you want in your own mind ... but Scripture plainly lays out the sequence for those who are more in line with the Bereans (i.e. search the Scriptures daily whether those things were so).
.
Right. Because they received G1209 the delivery that God sent.
Just as Nineveh RECEIVED Jonah whom God sent.
Just as Rahab RECEIVED the 2 witnesses whom God sent.
Others did NOT receive the delivery, did not heed the call, did not respond positively with a good conscience.

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received G1209 (dechomai) the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Mat 10:14
And whosoever shall G1209 not receive G1209 you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Mat 10:40
He that receiveth G1209 you receiveth G1209 me, and he that receiveth G1209 me receiveth G1209 him that sent me.

Mat 10:41
He that receiveth G1209 a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth G1209 a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Mat 11:14
And if ye will receive G1209 it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Luk 9:5
And whosoever will G1209 not receive G1209 you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

[Rom 6:17 KJV]
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

*********************************************************************

This matter has been conclusively proven by these few passages. There are dozens more, in fact hundreds if you include the OT.
Woe be to anyone who CHOOSES to not receive this FREE WILL form of doctrine.
 
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