Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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how you never answer the question.
Ninevah did hear the word of God. So obviously not talking about them. And I don't believe fairness is an attribute of God. He is said to be righteous. And it is certain that large swaths of humanity never heard the gospel. There are still those today who have not heard the gospel. What of these?
Because believers never ever ever talk about what is true of non-believers? And Paul never did? Psshhhh.
He never mentioned what he was like as an unbeliever? Never said anything about them being blinded,
under the power and influence of the devil? Gosh. Who then said all those thing, about children of wrath,
of being once like them, a lot was said in that regard. An awful lot. Are you really trying to tell us it was not Paul???
From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 v 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
18. Romans 5:1 echoes Eph. 2:8 by describing s/e as justification through faith, Eph. 1:5 & 7 by using the phrase “through Jesus Christ”, and Eph. 2:14 by describing s/e as having peace with God.
19. Romans 5:2 & 5 also echo Eph. 2:18 & 3:1 by describing s/e as having access to God’s grace via the Holy Spirit.
20. Romans 5:6-10 states that God’s love (cf. kindness in #3) for the ungodly, for sinners and for His enemies is demonstrated by Christ dying for their s/e or justification/reconciliation.
21. Romans 5:12-21 describes s/e in corporate terms, saying that–like the first man–all (many?) men also sinned and died, and God’s grace comes to all (many?) because of Jesus Christ.
22. Romans 6:1-14 describes s/e in terms of Christians being united with Christ’s death and resurrection, so they who are under grace should not allow sin to reign in their bodies but should instead serve God as instruments of righteousness.
23. Romans 6:15-23 describes s/e in terms of being slaves to whom one willingly obeys, whether to sin or to obedience of God’s teaching that leads to righteousness, which results in eternal life “in Christ Jesus our Lord” (cf. #10).
Once again, why are you saying you're bowing out, trying to explain your mocking, and not just bowing out?
This verse doesn't say they never heard the gospel; only that they are dead at the time it was written.
Yes......Greek rhetorical sublties escape us today in great measure. Hebrew sublties even more crippling.
But yea......the TULIP crowd is totally off the rails. Exceptionally ignorant of these complexities.
Poor Zacharias and Elizabeth. They did not realize that they were terminally afflicted with "total depravity" and in their vain imagination worshipped God anyways.
And worse, evidently by means of their elaborate ruse (plotted in a state of total ignorance), they somehow tricked omnicient God into declaring them righteous!
Pretty ridiculous right?
Scripture makes it very clear [to those who will hear] that God chose a people to be His before time began [saints, set aside]. Try reading His word beginning with Eph 1:3 and notice that His word is speaking of things done in the past.
Even though God sets various people aside as belonging to Him, it may not become evident for many years. But, it will happen at His time of choosing. This applies to those in OT times, as well as those in NT times.
Those chosen are not any better than those not chosen. But, God will in time show them mercy. Others will not receive mercy and will condemn themselves.
God never speaks of His fairness, and He is a debtor to no man. In fact He says:
Rom 9:21 - Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
That is very true! And His justice for His chosen people was satisfied in Christ's death and resurrection.
It sounds like the confusion is within the context of a believer which makes the quote “whoever chooses to sin” true. Because in Christ we are set free from sin which also means we have a choice to either obey or disobey in the pursuit of sanctification.
As for the unbeliever, legalism gets them nowhere. Choosing to obey certain rules while ignoring the fact that the debt of sin is so copious that we are only left with one choice.
To respond to God
Or
Deny Him
It seems to me there is confusion on many fronts starting with the term free will itself which is not in the Bible. So they throw this term around and people believe that because they can choose what color socks to wear it somehow has some bearing on the eternal fate of their soul, which completely misses the mark. Another piece of the puzzle is the fact that those who profess free will have a derangement syndrome known as CDS but they largely refuse to acknowledge that man's inability is not exclusive to calvinism. They don't like the term depravity either but it is not exclusive to calvinism either. On the other hand the Bible does teach that God moves first and that nobody is seeking for God ... that they only come because He draws them with loving kindness to engender repentance.
We can finally agree on something. I'm with you. Paul's spiritual struggle was between the flesh and the Spirit. And the Spirit he did not have until his new birth! Or another way of looking at this is that since God made Paul a partaker of the divine nature (2Pet 1:4), we can see Paul's battle between the two natures. The unregenerate experience no such spiritual warfare.
Are you speaking for @Cameron143 ?
"never' is a big word, and "fair" has several core meanings and additional connotations.
You're picking up more and more bad habits around here as you turn from goofy cartoon character to warrior cartoon character, e.g. "Try reading his word".
He tried freewill. It didn't work, so He flooded the place and started over with somebody who made better decisions. Well, till he got drunk. The whole family's guilty now. Thank God for Jesus. He did it right this time and ended all the unecessary questions.
Nothing will mar the perfect existence of the saints in the eternal New Order. God will erase all bad memories forever (Isa 65:17).
Yeah the point I was making is he preached it to them after they had died even those people from the days of Noah who drown on the flood ….and also. Those who were dead in the time after Jesus died and rose and sent the gospel to all creation…. Even those who had died day back on the flood thousands of years prior
literally all of creation the living and the dead
It’s actually to that purpose Jesus himself entered into death to be the lord of the living and the dead
“For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.”
Romans 14:9 NIV
I'm self-taught but feel it to be Holy Spirit-led. So I don't hold to any tradition except those that complement how the Bible reads. I came to the Bible before being heavily exposed to past doctrines.
1. Regardless of what the gift is, the meaning of the word speaks of pistis as something given of supernatural persuasion. Which gives me the belief that pistis is part of the gift or else no one would respond to God due to sin.
2.
Every testimony including mine has a point once we are persuaded that Jesus is Lord and then we accept Him as Lord and Savior.
To believe is to accept Jesus's finished work on the cross.
Where people get confused is thinking that belief is legalistic.
But there are plenty of scriptures that call on the unbelievers to believe which would be a lie if they could not.