Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Thank you for your honesty. At least you had the backbone to speak candidly. FWers must believe that their own volition is the primary and efficacious cause of their salvation, which I have often stated on this thread and others.
No you are being dishonest and falsly accusing people

we believe the primary and effacious cause of our salvation is christ.

He holds out the gift. We have a choice. recieve it. or reject it.

the only people who earn what they get is those who continue in unbelief.

But her. I guess you think your child earned that gift. because he or she took it (do you have kids) thats in effect what your saying..
 
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So...you're saying that God never granted the fallen angels the grace of repentance and faith, correct? And that's why they don't and can't believe in the Savior? Why would they believe in someone who was not given to them? But doesn't this make God UNJUST? Isn't one of the major FW mantras: God treats all his moral agents equally?
um,

they have seen God (somethign you and I have never done) and shoe to remain with God. or leave with satan

its not that they can not repent. its that they already know God and reject him..

They still think they have hope. and will fight to the end.
 
actually we do not

WE believe God did it by his supernatural power and with the word and help of others

YOU think he had to make us born again, so we could not reject him

huge difference

How can you possibly believe that since "his supernatural power" isn't efficacious?
 
How can you possibly believe that since "his supernatural power" isn't efficacious?
Because people still do not believe

He came to Jerusalem. and cried because he willed for them to be gathered together. but they were unwilling.

God does not remove free will.. He would not be a loving God if he did this
 
um,

they have seen God (somethign you and I have never done) and shoe to remain with God. or leave with satan

its not that they can not repent. its that they already know God and reject him..

They still think they have hope. and will fight to the end.

They have zero hope. And there's no hope expressed in this text:

Matt 8:29
When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. 29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
NKJV

It sounds like the demons also knew they had NOTHING in God, just like the devil himself has nothing in Christ! And they certainly understood what their end would be!

Did you know that Adam also had empirical evidence for God?
 
Because people still do not believe

He came to Jerusalem. and cried because he willed for them to be gathered together. but they were unwilling.

God does not remove free will.. He would not be a loving God if he did this

Right. So, this means man's will must be the efficacious cause behind God's salvation opportunity. And this makes God weak and impotent, which is rather odd since no one can thwart God's will -- except of course, the folks in Jerusalem -- and all FWers. :rolleyes:

And Jesus never said it was his will or his Father's that everyone in Jerusalem believe in Him.
 
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It is the issue because the victim of sin (the half-dead guy) was HELPLESS, just as all of us are since we're all infected with sin and, therefore, just as helpless as he was in the story!
the Lord Jesus Christ tells us what is the point of the parable:

click
click

click

Luke 10:

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell the lawyer he needed to be like "the victim of sin"





Rufus said:
The Good Samaritian story is one of a gracious RESCUE mission which you arrogant, prideful FWers for some odd reason cannot see. Your high view of humanity and low view of God has totally blinded many here.
the one who is "arrogant, prideful" is the one who shifts the focus from what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to something other than what He taught in an effort to argue about what is not the focus.
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If you are drowning and you are thrown a rope, will you brag that you grabbed the rope and saved yourself? You will not. The credit goes to the one who gave you the rope.


Because Jesus did not die for angels, He died for people

But all of Adam's progeny are not merely drowning. They're already DEAD! You need to come up with a better analogy.

And, yes, Christ died for all people w/o distinction -- but not for all w/o exception. Besides, why would Christ die for people he knew in eternity would never believe in Him? Isn't God's "foreknowledge" all about Prescience? Did God misinterpret his cosmic crystal ball?
 
the Lord Jesus Christ tells us what is the point of the parable:

click
click

click

Luke 10:

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell the lawyer he needed to be like "the victim of sin"





the one who is "arrogant, prideful" is the one who shifts the focus from what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to something other than what He taught in an effort to argue about what is not the focus.
.

But this doesn't change the fact that victim of sin was in a helpless state. YOU, on the other hand, think you're as strong and healthy and robust as a bull. To deny this fact is to deny that you're a sinner!
 
The first three seeds are not God's elect. There's only one seed who was and bore good fruit that came from a good heart -- a new, changed heart that is unilaterally promised in the New Covenant.
Yes but the middle two did rejoice in the word and even grew in the word. For a time. Whether that represents 5 minutes or 5 years How is that even possible if they were never of the elect? If it is not even possible for the elect to even rejoice or grow in it? For it is all confusion. Plus any growth at all must come from God correct?
 
But this doesn't change the fact that victim of sin was in a helpless state. YOU, on the other hand, think you're as strong and healthy and robust as a bull. To deny this fact is to deny that you're a sinner!
if you'd focus on what the Lord Jesus Christ taught in the parable, you could let go of your fascination with what is not the focus ... just let it go ... God can help you with that ... ask Him to help you.
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Yes but the middle two did rejoice in the word and even grew in the word. For a time. Whether that represents 5 minutes or 5 years How is that even possible if they were never of the elect? If it is not even possible for the elect to even rejoice or grow in it? For it is all confusion. Plus any growth at all must come from God correct?
my bible says God gives the increase ...

1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

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