Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[studier]

It was a joke. Only God is qualified to judge what is true of the human heart. We are called to make temporal judgments, but we aren't called to make eternal judgments.
My temporal discernment regarding you isn't off. You aren't seeking my wellbeing.

I initially took it tongue-in-cheek, and my reply was actually made accordingly. Read it in that light and maybe you'll catch it. Obviously, you didn't the first time. Your response was harsh and wrongly judgmental. It's good you came back here and got Biblical. It's nice you got a winner emoji for it.

I admit I don't have a lot of respect for your m.o. and I strongly disagree with your interpretations of Scripture as far as you've disclosed them. You're well aware I see them as being pretty flowery. From some things I've read from others, I don't think I'm alone in this last stated viewpoint.

 

[Cameron143]

God has made plain in His revealed written Word what He thinks, believes, and knows
to be true of the human heart, but the free willers deny these truths told of humanity.

He has. And we are able to use such knowledge with discernment. But even with all that, we only have a partial picture. We aren't qualified to make eternal judgements.

 

[Magenta]

He has. And we are able to use such knowledge with discernment. But even with all that, we only have a partial picture. We aren't qualified to make eternal judgements.

This is true, though I was not addressing the eternal judgments' aspect, just the fact that man's heart is laid bare before God, He knows what it is and why it needs to be replaced, but the free will crowd denies pretty much everything said of the unregenertaed man to promote their vain man-exalting theology which is at odds with a plethora of Scriptural truths. That is the point I was underscoring... it is the focus of many of my posts and recent panels, and I have spoken at length on these things, and still people who have been part of the conversation try to hammer me into some small-minded pre-conceived idea they have that has little if anything to do with anything I've said. Even Mem did it.

 

[Rufus]

I agree, God does not elect monsters to enforce good behavior.

God does not elect Islamic governments that ban the Bible and Church.

The bible says differently! God is in total control of his plan in redemptive history.

Dan 2:20-21
20 and said:

"Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he sets up kings and deposes them.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
NIV

Did not God raise up Pontius Pilate to do his will? Didn't Pontius condemn the Holy One of Israel?

John 19:11
11 Jesus answered him [Pontius Pilate], "You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin."
ESV

And....

Acts 4:27-28
27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.
NIV

Your view of God is quite small.

 

[studier]

The only ones who bring up TULIP are the ones who say they don't believe it. Yet somehow, they enjoy using extra biblical terminology for doctrines where biblical language is available. Odd.

When I first joined this forum one of the early threads I encountered was being commandeered by an extremely aggressive TULIPer posting all kinds of charts and materials and being pretty vicious about it. Soon thereafter the mantle was taken up by another but with a different m.o. and that has continued for thousands of posts and has now migrated to this thread.

Even if it's not being named, the terminology is unmistakable, and the Scripture interpretations are textbook TULIP and very easy to spot.

Whether you like it or not TULIPs are being inserted at nearly every turn of a thread like this. It's just easier to call a spade a spade.

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.

 

[Lamar]

Please tell me how many of these Scriptural truths you reject, contradict, and/or outright deny:

And this is why people do not answer your questions.

Try asking open ended questions in place of your childish loaded questions.

 

[Cameron143]

I initially took it tongue-in-cheek, and my reply was actually made accordingly. Read it in that light and maybe you'll catch it. Obviously, you didn't the first time. Your response was harsh and wrongly judgmental. It's good you came back here and got Biblical. It's nice you got a winner emoji for it.

I admit I don't have a lot of respect for your m.o. and I strongly disagree with your interpretations of Scripture as far as you've disclosed them. You're well aware I see them as being pretty flowery. From some things I've read from others, I don't think I'm alone in this last stated viewpoint.

I appreciate honesty. Sharing your opinion of me was your honest assessment. Saying I was unbiblical was not. And you do lack spiritual discernment. Your accusation that I was judgmental is equally judgmental, though I doubt in your mind. Then you do what a number of others do, you form a faux consensus by saying others feel the same way. It's a manipulation technique to make your argument seem more favorable. Probably not even aware you do it. As I said earlier, your desire isn't my wellbeing.

At any rate, this discussion has become unedifying. Grace and peace.

 

[Magenta]

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Galatians 5 verse 1 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. Romans 6 verse 18 Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 1 Corinthians 8 verse 9 Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2 verse 16 Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 1 Corinthians 9 verse 19

 

[Magenta]

And this is why people do not answer your questions.

Try asking open ended questions in place of your childish loaded questions.

Oh, are you pretending to have a dialogue with me now after refusing
to answer multiple posts of mine addressed to you from days ago???

You make astute observations but then refuse to acknowledge that you are part of the problem you observe.

Like making stupid assumptions and jumping to erroneous conclusions and then neglecting to admit any error on your part.

You will insist and I have seen you do it more than once, you insist people answer you if they want to dialogue with you.

Do you answer others? Ha!

 

[Rufus]

it strenghtned PHAROAHs will. which was to reject god.. and God used this to free his people and destroy pharoah and his army

So, I suppose no Christian should ever beseech the Lord for spiritual strength, right? Christians would wind up like Pharaoh, right?

 

[Magenta]

It's just easier to call a spade a spade.

That's why you are rightfully called a Pelagian heretic.

 

[Rufus]

Not to the free will crowd. They needed no help, thank you very much.

Let us never forget that their claim is man can obey from their incurably wicked heart whereas Scripture says the exact opposite.

People who want to make it about what colour of socks they wear or what to have for lunch have missed the point entirely.

Or shall we simply say that they are out to lunch LOL

Maybe WE'RE not getting it. Maybe we missed some commandment about socks and the days to wear them, what color...or not even any at all.

 

[Rufus]

A covenant yes but a different one. One of many.

It was more than just "a covenant" since that covenant is still in force today and is being fulfilled under the New Covenant. Conversely, the Mosaic Covenant is ancient history.

 

[Magenta]

And this is why people do not answer your questions.

They are legitimate questions that people refuse to answer for fear of their answers exposing them for the heretics they are.

Many do repeatedly answer yes to those questions in the numerous posts they make which ignore,
contradict, and outright deny what Scripture explicitly states, even in the words of Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[Lamar]

I have not seen Cameron pushing TULIP. Liars claim he does, though.

Consider these Scriptural truths if you dare. Man up.

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

You are naive if you think that Cameron does not push TULIP. There is not one tenet of the TULIP that he disagrees with.

On your question, I accept all of them as the Word of God, it is your opinion (which is most of it) that I disagree with.

 

[Magenta]

You are naive if you think that Cameron does not push TULIP. There is not one tenet of the TULIP that he disagrees with.

Cameron does not believe God fits men for destruction. He believes men do that to themselves.

You have been exposed as one of the liars.

 

[studier]

I appreciate honesty. Sharing your opinion of me was your honest assessment. Saying I was unbiblical was not. And you do lack spiritual discernment. Your accusation that I was judgmental is equally judgmental, though I doubt in your mind. Then you do what a number of others do, you form a faux consensus by saying others feel the same way. It's a manipulation technique to make your argument seem more favorable. Probably not even aware you do it. As I said earlier, your desire isn't my wellbeing.

At any rate, this discussion has become unedifying. Grace and peace.

Saying I disagree with your interpretations of Scripture is not honest assessment? You may certainly view it as incorrect assessment but dishonest? You're aware that you're not setting aside personal attacks in these statements, aren't you?

Yes, the bandwagon fallacy was potentially there, but I wasn't appealing to it to try to make myself credible. Wording such things can be tough but there was no intent of 'everyone knows this.' I had already stated clearly what my opinion is and I'm relying on nobody's input to make judgments about your interpretations of Scripture.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sure Rufus, nobody but you considers context close and throughout all Scripture.

Yet time and time again it’s vivid that you have little to no grasp of how to deal with Scripture in close context let alone in greater context.

The lunacy here astounds.

Yeah it’s pretty common that a person removes the context of scriptire , creates thier own context out of thin air for a single verse by which they define everything else that’s totally contrary to what’s just written in its context from those explainations were given in the letters and books of the nt

when people stop trying to o terpreting each verse out of context and just start taking in what they were actually saying in its context most of the “ the bu ke is hard to understand “ goes away ironically we interpret away what they are saying with our own created doctrinal ideas that were never there Peter really hit the nail on the head here

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

still true today a sentance plucked from Paul’s writings often is used to erase what he was saying and what they all said clearly few people will just read what’s there and ask the lord to help them grasp what he’s saying …. But that works every time

 

[Lamar]

The only ones who bring up TULIP are the ones who say they don't believe it. Yet somehow, they enjoy using extra biblical terminology for doctrines where biblical language is available. Odd.

Hey Cameron.

Is Magenta's question on post# 3253 fair and honest?

She seems to think that it exposes me as a heretic if I ignore it as written.