So in your universe, "destruction" is heaven? Do a word study on the term "destruction" if you can find a concordance.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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So in your universe, "destruction" is heaven? Do a word study on the term "destruction" if you can find a concordance.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
actually he strengthened pharaohs heart. by starting small and ending large. so when the last plague came, Pharoah was so hardened, he would do what God needed.
He did not force pharaoh to do anything
who are the elect?
is it not those who see and believe?
who did he foreknow. and what did he foreknow?
Stay on topic. Did God force Israel to be in covenant with Him?
John 15 verse 16 ~ You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
who was this spoken to.
John 15 verse 16 ~ You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
And was not Judas one of the 12?
Interesting flow.
It looks to me like @Cameron143 missed the nuance of the response to his complex question.
I didn't miss anything. Please answer the questions. Instead of making false assertions, perhaps you can be trained to edify. God clearly chose Israel to be His people. He says He did it because He simply wanted to show His love to them. Before this, He says He didn't choose them on the basis of anything that was true of them. So did God force Israel to be His people?
You're pretty smart. You can see where this is heading. If a pattern of sovereign choosing can be established and accepted, it can also be applied on an individual basis. My contention is that God did indeed deal with Israel in this manner, and the NT makes the same claim of NT believers.
You know what I mean by [Calvinistic] Determinism.
I have to side with @reneweddaybyday on the Adam & Eve debate. God atoned for their sins.
Pharaoh has been covered extensively. I have to side with myself and others who see Pharaoh's involvement and YHWH using it - strengthening it - as @Everlasting-Grace has noted.
I also see Balaam's volitional obedience involved in the Biblical story and I won't be responding to selective proof-texting to balance what you may choose to say from a few chapters of Scripture.
Obviously not.
In fact Moses was up and down Mt. Sinai at least EIGHT TIMES.
Doing what exactly?
Negotiating the covenant of course.
Right. Nobody is arguing against the fact that Jesus chose the Twelve.
John 15 verse 16 ~ You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
Any boss in the workplace or coach in sports does the same.
Yet another super-determinist misapprehension bites the dust.
Nothing personal, but actually, I think you did miss something. Look at your question(s) again. There's a reason I referred to it as "complex" which has a meaning. Ask yourself or @HeIsHere and @cv5 precisely what they were responding to. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, which is why I said "It looks to me like..."
God said quite a bit more about His choice of Israel and its purpose which flows from His choice of Abraham and the promises He made to Abraham that ultimately came to fruition in his "Seed".
It's your assumption or position that God choosing Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel - the man and the nation - then the Christ establishes what you propose, but for good reason it's not the position of all theological traditions other than the one you continue to deny you agree with, as I understand you, yet now we're beyond the T and into the U and it's hard to distinguish between you and others who unabashedly wear the label.
Also, there have been a few here who have brought up the fact of election to service that needs to be figured in, let alone whether or not all of Israel was elected to be saved which must also be dealt with.
Thanks. You get a participation trophy. Still you can't speak to what the Bible teaches without referring to nonbiblical terms. Didn't you chastise me for this? And you can't stay on topic or answer relevant questions. Someone has already proffered that Moses negotiated the covenant with God. Soon we'll have Moses in the burning bush summoning God. That Moses was something else.
The problem with trying to understand the Bible from man's viewpoint is...well...it's written from God's standpoint.
God has appointed everyone in positions of authority, whether or not perceived as good or evil.