Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Everlasting-Grace]

Only those given to Jesus by God can and will come. Did you miss that part???

The lost do not seek after God. Did you miss that part also?

and who is given to God?

is it not those who see and believe?

do he himself say those who do have PASSED from death to life (bron again or regeneration)

and that they shall not be judged?

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

When the word of God was proclaimed...come to the waters...did God not send it forth? In sending it forth, will God accomplish His purpose whereunto He sent it? If it leads to salvation, is this God's purpose in sending it forth? If it doesn't lead to salvation, is this still God's purpose in sending it forth?

yes,

but does this mean that those who it does not lead to salvation do it because God determined they would not be saved and did not even give them an opportunity. by making known to them the truthy. hence they have no excuse?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Interesting what the circumstances of life can bring a "corpse" to realize.

Nice reference.

a corpse can do nothing good or bad. It just lays there. there is no consciousness, or life.

so how could a corpse do anything.

 

[Magenta]

When the word of God was proclaimed...come to the waters...did God not send it forth? In sending it forth, will God accomplish His purpose whereunto He sent it? If it leads to salvation, is this God's purpose in sending it forth? If it doesn't lead to salvation, is this still God's purpose in sending it forth?

Maybe they want you to believe that those who hate God thirst for Him. Scripture proclaims that the natural man
is hostile in his mind towards God, as opposed to those who thirst for Him, those being whom God has made
alive so they may receive and understand the spiritual things of God which beforehand they were opposed to.
It always comes back to their direct rejection of a number of things Jesus said, among a slew of other proclamations
made from the beginning chapters of Scripture to the very end.

 

[HeIsHere]

Wow.
So...what can we garner from Isaiah 55?
First we can establish that God is active in the affairs of men and employs His word in this activity.
Second, God says that He is the ultimate determiner of what His word accomplishes.

What I find most impressive is how the Bible becomes, in the Reformed School of Supposed Thought, an ongoing treatise explaining why the Gospel message is completely ineffectual.

Humankind cannot believe and God must provide, >>>>>> personal, unique. divine special revelation to those He chose from before time began and of course drag them into the banquet, yes we mean drag against their will, oopsies they have no will?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They want you to believe that those who hate God thirst for Him.

Who wants us to think this?

Scripture proclaims that the natural man
is hostile in his mind towards God, as opposed to those who thirst for Him, those being whom God has made
alive so they may receive and understand the spiritual things of God which beforehand he was opposed to.

Yes he is, which is why God must draw them to himself. Which is why he must convict them of sin. Which is why he must convince them that he is trustworthy,. and not the monster make him out to be.

so they can make an informed decision

 

[Cameron143]

To know this, you have to know Gods purpose


ok. again, what is Gods purpose? Did he not tell us this in John 3, John 5 and John 6? as well as many other places?

I don't need to know God's purpose to know that when He sends forth His word that it will always accomplish what He purposes. His word clearly says that it does. My question to you is...when God sends forth His word, is the purpose always to accomplish salvation?

 

[Magenta]

What I find most impressive is how the Bible becomes, in the Reformed School of Supposed Thought, an ongoing treatise explaining why the Gospel message is completely ineffectual.

Some believe what Scripture actually says, not your preferred repeated butchering of it.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,...

You have left off the end part many many times. You butcher Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

Humankind cannot believe and God must provide, >>>>>> personal, unique. divine special revelation to those He chose from before time began and of course drag them into the banquet, yes we mean drag against their will, oopsies they have no will?

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[Cameron143]

What I find most impressive is how the Bible becomes, in the Reformed School of Supposed Thought, an ongoing treatise explaining why the Gospel message is completely ineffectual.

Humankind cannot believe and God must provide, >>>>>> personal, unique. divine special revelation to those He chose from before time began and of course drag them into the banquet, yes we mean drag against their will, oopsies they have no will?

So, your post is exactly why nothing changes around here. You leave a particular passage of scripture, misrepresent other's beliefs, and have no concern for doing so.

Do have another question for you. Since you don't accept Isaiah 55 as a proof text, what is your criteria for proof texts? In particular, others have posited Luke 15 as proof that man has the ability to comprehend what others say can only be understood spiritually. Do you believe Luke 15 is a proof text for man's ability to understand spiritual things?

 

[Magenta]

So, your post is exactly why nothing changes around here. You leave a particular passage of scripture, misrepresent other's beliefs, and have no concern for doing so.

Do have another question for you. Since you don't accept Isaiah 55 as a proof text, what is your criteria for proof texts? In particular, others have posited Luke 15 as proof that man has the ability to comprehend what others say can only be understood spiritually. Do you believe Luke 15 is a proof text for man's ability to understand spiritual things?

They don't like PROOF texts because they have none to prop up their false doctrine, vain philosophies, and traditions of man.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't need to know God's purpose to know that when He sends forth His word that it will always accomplish what He purposes.

You do if you want to use this to prove the point your tryign to make

we both agree that Gods word WILL always accomplish what it purposes..

but we do not both agree what that prurpose is.

so using it to prove your point is sensless. unless you explain what his purpose is

His word clearly says that it does. My question to you is...when God sends forth His word, is the purpose always to accomplish salvation?

If it did. then everyone would be saved.

the fact everyone is not saved proves to me it is not his purpose that when he sends his word. that everyone will be saved.

Again, thats why I take us to his will

what is his will. All who sees and believes will be born again, and not be judged and will never perish but have eternal life

thats his purpose and will

jesus said it himself. He was not sent to judge, but that the world MAY be saved.

 

[Cameron143]

yes,

but does this mean that those who it does not lead to salvation do it because God determined they would not be saved and did not even give them an opportunity. by making known to them the truthy. hence they have no excuse?

They are already without excuse, according to Romans 1.
I believe men fit themselves for destruction as per Romans 9. I believe this would be true of everyone if God did not purpose otherwise.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They don't like PROOF texts because they have none to prop up their false doctrine, vain philosophies, and traditions of man.

What happened to you?

You can ignore my posts all you want. But I see something in you that just makes me sick..

Do you have anything pertinent to add to the conversation?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They are already without excuse, according to Romans 1.

yes why? because God hid it from them, or because they hid it inside themselves?

I believe men fit themselves for destruction as per Romans 9. I believe this would be true of everyone if God did not purpose otherwise.

Not sure what you mean, romans 9 is about Gods chosing of Israel. not about condemning an unborn baby to hell

 

[Cameron143]

You do if you want to use this to prove the point your tryign to make

we both agree that Gods word WILL always accomplish what it purposes..

but we do not both agree what that prurpose is.

so using it to prove your point is sensless. unless you explain what his purpose is


If it did. then everyone would be saved.

the fact everyone is not saved proves to me it is not his purpose that when he sends his word. that everyone will be saved.

Again, thats why I take us to his will

what is his will. All who sees and believes will be born again, and not be judged and will never perish but have eternal life

thats his purpose and will

jesus said it himself. He was not sent to judge, but that the world MAY be saved.

Again, one doesn't have to know God's purpose to know it is always accomplished. One only has to believe what scripture says.
Since God's word going forth always accomplishes God's purpose, we can deduce that when it goes forth and doesn't result in salvation, that salvation wasn't God's purpose in sending it. We can also conclude that when it does go forth and results in salvation, God's purpose was also accomplished.

 

[Cameron143]

yes why? because God hid it from them, or because they hid it inside themselves?

Not sure what you mean, romans 9 is about Gods chosing of Israel. not about condemning an unborn baby to hell

Wow. Who is talking about babies?
I appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Again, one doesn't have to know God's purpose to know it is always accomplished.

Again, I agree.. why are you still arguing this point?

One only has to believe what scripture says.
Since God's word going forth always accomplishes God's purpose, we can deduce that when it goes forth and doesn't result in salvation, that salvation wasn't God's purpose in sending it. We can also conclude that when it does go forth and results in salvation, God's purpose was also accomplished.

No we can not deduce this Unless Gods word specifically states this

this is called putting your own view in light of Gods word.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Wow. Who is talking about babies?
I appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

your view of romans 9 Has God condemning a baby to hell before he is already born.

so when you quote romans 9 from a reformed perspective, this is essentially what you are insinuating

 

[HeIsHere]

So, your post is exactly why nothing changes around here. You leave a particular passage of scripture, misrepresent other's beliefs, and have no concern for doing so.

Do have another question for you. Since you don't accept Isaiah 55 as a proof text, what is your criteria for proof texts? In particular, others have posited Luke 15 as proof that man has the ability to comprehend what others say can only be understood spiritually. Do you believe Luke 15 is a proof text for man's ability to understand spiritual things?

There will never really be a dialogue, all we can do is point out all the holes in the schema by scripture and logic.
It is not possible to dialogue with what is essentially illogical, even of you pull scripture to make it sound Biblical

As @cv5 has pointed out many times,

God doesn’t program people’s decisions like robots
He wants people to Love Him/Seek Him by their own decision – without making that decision for them.

He/God proposes marriage to her – and honors her decision – and does not make her decision for her.
He/God allows her to say no – and does not determine her choice.

What I see in this Reformed School is the case of the irresistible bull of Greek mythology.