Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Some of us have tried to deal only with Scripture. It's pretty tough around here.

No one has dealt only with Scripture. Certainly not you, nor either of the two who agreed with you.

Neither did any of you three try to. Not even close.

 

[GWH]

Good morning king of insults. For someone who professes to desire unity and believes God loves everyone, you do a poor job of promoting unity and exercising love towards others. Perhaps your convictions are posted well in words, but lack the commensurate exercise. Just a thought.
Grace and peace.

Well, I try my best to share the truth in love but confess that reproving may not be one of my gifts--certainly not persuasion!

LIC & HT!
(Happy Trails :^)

 

[HeIsHere]

The post is messed up and I am not going to spend time to fix it...

@Cameron143 stated has posted some 60+ scriptures that deal with the estate of the natural fallen man.

And not one states that people cannot believe the Gospel message unless they receive unique, special, divine intervention.

And many are about particular situations and not a universal statement about all humanity.

 

[Magenta]

John 10 verses 27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

 

[Magenta]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[Cameron143]

The post is messed up and I am not going to spend time to fix it...

@Cameron143 stated has posted some 60+ scriptures that deal with the estate of the natural fallen man.

And not one states that people cannot believe the Gospel message unless they receive unique, special, divine intervention.

And many are about particular situations and not a universal statement about all humanity.

And not 1 verse states they can. But when you see the whole of scripture, you can conclude that this is what scripture teaches.
I asked you a question based on Isaiah 55. In it, God says that when His word goes forth, it always accomplishes God's purpose. Sometimes people hear the word of God and do not get saved. When this is the case, can we conclude it was not God's purpose to save?

 

[Magenta]

The post is messed up and I am not going to spend time to fix it...

@Cameron143 stated has posted some 60+ scriptures that deal with the estate of the natural fallen man.

And not one states that people cannot believe the Gospel message unless they receive unique, special, divine intervention.

And many are about particular situations and not a universal statement about all humanity.

You reject universal statements about all humanity. There are none good you turn into,
the natural man is not such a bad guy and that bad tree can bring forth the good fruit
of faith even though Jesus explicitly said otherwise. According to you he has everything
he needs in order to choose to believe while an enemy of God hostile in his mind toward
Him, a lover of darkness and slave to sin opposed to the spiritual things of God and
suppressing the truth in unrighteousness while under the power and influence of the
devil, refusing to come into the light and incapable of obeying God.

 

[Magenta]

Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Some of us have tried to deal only with Scripture. It's pretty tough around here.

its the ism thing

people interpret scripture according to their "ism" or what they have been taught..

sadly I have seen it on both sides.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sure some come to faith.

this then shows what I was trying to say , we all have free will. some come some do not.

But no one has an excuse. because God has not kept his truth from anyone (concerning the gospel)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, but I am not part of "we", because I continually encourage us all to study Scripture
instead of playing verbal ping-pong or tar-baby with the goal of achieving spiritual unity.

lets make sure of this.. we need to examine ourselves.. many times I have seen even I do it and am not even aware of it. because it is a reflex response.

 

[Magenta]

And not 1 verse states they can. But when you see the whole of scripture, you can conclude that this is what scripture teaches.
I asked you a question based on Isaiah 55. In it, God says that when His word goes forth, it always accomplishes God's purpose. Sometimes people hear the word of God and do not get saved. When this is the case, can we conclude it was not God's purpose to save?

Eternal life is knowing Jesus Christ. Some think He can be known by reading about Him,
like reading about Tom Cruise in the TV Guide. Obviously they have never experienced God
on a personal level. They make this abundantly plain by trying to shame those who have
even though it is a promise that God makes to us in and through His Word.

1 John 5 verse 20 ~ We know that the Son of God is come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Magenta]

John 17 verses 2-3 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[cv5]

And not 1 verse states they can. But when you see the whole of scripture, you can conclude that this is what scripture teaches.
I asked you a question based on Isaiah 55. In it, God says that when His word goes forth, it always accomplishes God's purpose. Sometimes people hear the word of God and do not get saved. When this is the case, can we conclude it was not God's purpose to save?

Actually, its the implications of your misapprehensions of these verses that are the dire problem.

Here is a short list:

-God's offer of repentance is fraudulent
-repentance never actually occurs
-the repenters are the victim of an hoax and have actually been kidnapped
-the kidnap victims are headed to a shotgun wedding far beyond their choice or control
-those that God does NOT kidnap are the losers in the VIP kidnapping lottery
-these losers were created by God and then purposely abandoned, so that they will spend eternity in the lake of fire

In other words, you postulate that Holy God is a scheming tyrant, unjust judge, and kidnapper with wholly nefarious attributes.
Of course I stridently disagree on Biblical grounds.

You fail to understand the most basic principles that Jesus-God has provided for you, such as:

[Luk 15:17 KJV]
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

[Luk 15:18 KJV]
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

[Luk 15:20 KJV]
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Eternal life is knowing Jesus Christ. Some think He can be known by reading about Him,

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

so yes. We can know about Jesus by reading. but it takes more than this.. I know a few who came to christ just because they found their parents bible and started reading it..

like reading about Tom Cruise in the TV Guide.

so now we are comparing Jesus to Tom Cruse, and the word of God to TV guide.

smh

Obviously they have never experienced God
on a personal level. They make this abundantly plain by trying to shame those who have
even though it is a promise that God makes to us in and through His Word.

Have you? met God on a personal level?

 

[Magenta]

Grow up.

 

[Cameron143]

this then shows what I was trying to say , we all have free will. some come some do not.

But no one has an excuse. because God has not kept his truth from anyone (concerning the gospel)

Let's examine Isaiah 55. God states that when His word goes forth, it accomplishes His purpose in sending it.

First question: who is determining the results of what is accomplished?

 

[Magenta]

Let's examine Isaiah 55. God states that when His word goes forth, it accomplishes His purpose in sending it.

First question: who is determining the results of what is accomplished?

Isaiah 55 verses 10-11

 

[Cameron143]

Actually, its the implications of your misapprehensions of these verses that are the dire problem.

Here is a short list:

-God's offer of repentance is fraudulent
-repentance never actually occurs
-the repenters are the victim of an hoax and have actually been kidnapped
-the kidnap victims are headed to a shotgun wedding far beyond their choice or control
-those that God does NOT kidnap are the losers in the VIP kidnapping lottery
-these losers were created by God and then purposely abandoned, so that they will spend eternity in the lake of fire

In other words, you postulate that Holy God is a scheming tyrant, unjust judge, and kidnapper with wholly nefarious attributes.
Of course I stridently disagree on Biblical grounds.

You fail to understand the most basic principles that Jesus-God has provided for you, such as:

[Luk 15:17 KJV]
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

[Luk 15:18 KJV]
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

[Luk 15:20 KJV]
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

These simply reveal your scriptural misconceptions. Let's dig a little.

In Isaiah 55, God says that when His word goes forth, it always accomplishes the purpose whereunto He sent it.

First question: who is determining the results that come from God sending forth His word?

 

[HeIsHere]

These simply reveal your scriptural misconceptions. Let's dig a little.

In Isaiah 55, God says that when His word goes forth, it always accomplishes the purpose whereunto He sent it.

First question: who is determining the results that come from God sending forth His word?

Jesus was the Word and He accomplished what He set out to do.

And His words reveal truth and people can accept or reject.

Please stop with these proof texts, seriously,