Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[HeIsHere]

Typical pejoratives instead of substantive/systematic discussion of Scripture.

Am I missing something here, a person cannot believe in the Gospel without personal direct, unique and special aid according to

Reformed Systematic Theology, but then they make an analogy with the sun shining?

Now to make a truer analogy, the person would not be able to believe in that sun shining based on sensory knowledge, UNLESS

they are given the personal, direct unique special aid correct @Cameron143

 

[HeIsHere]

Only if what supposedly pleases Him contradicts what God clearly teaches pleases Him,
such as "Love your enemies".

Exactly, the god of Reformed systems, contradictory ....along with He is entitled to be unfair because He is God, like that is any real apologetic.

 

[Cameron143]

Am I missing something here, a person cannot believe in the Gospel without personal direct, unique and special aid according to

Reformed Systematic Theology, but then they make an analogy with the sun shining?

Now to make a truer analogy, the person would not be able to believe in that sun shining based on sensory knowledge, UNLESS

they are given the personal, direct unique special aid correct @Cameron143

I'm hearing Twilight Zone music in the background now.

 

[studier]

The sun is the source of the earth's energy. Plants convert that energy into usable energy for animals and humans. Without the sun, all life on earth ends. God created the sun and upholds it by the word of His power...Hebrews 1:3. Your continued existence depends on God's grace. Likewise, Jesus upholds all Christians...John 15:5. Your whole existence is due to the grace of God. You receive benefit on a continuous basis due to the activity of God. You do nothing to receive this blessing. It is simply received by you every time you eat, drink, or breathe.

Yes, this is essentially "common grace" (Matt5:45) with the addition of part of our Lord's grace for His siblings.

Man can exercise volition in that he can make choices, but his choices can only reflect his nature.

Non-sequitur + other fallacies such as dogmatism, begging the question, false dichotomy. Then we can add in confirmation bias.

And very TULIP BTW.

 

[studier]

Not everyone! There ain't no sun shinin' where I live. Grey, bleak and gloomy.

Still light outside so some of us know the sun is risen.

 

[studier]

Also, God's grace isn't dependent on our existence. It was present before we got here and will be here when we leave. Otherwise, how could others throughout history have received the grace?

No argument here.

It'll be with us after we leave also.

 

[Lamar]

False dichotomy. If you owe a debt and I pay it, you received the benefit having done nothing. This is at the heart of grace. What choice did you make when God caused the sun to shine today?

False equivalence. The suns shines on all of us. In your theology forgiveness is limited to the chosen few.

What choice did the unchosen masses have in your theology?

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm hearing Twilight Zone music in the background now.

I know eh, "Jesus states/invites believe, (in the fullest meaning of the word in the ancient usage of the language) but people are not allowed to unless specifically drawn and given special, unique, divine revelation.

Yup, the Twilight Zone was great at revealing strange ideas.

 

[Mem]

Sorry, I mistakenly hit post early.

Many of your examples are not accepted. But I have no real issue with God seeming to force certain things at certain times or exercising His right to unilaterally choose such as the forefathers or the Seed of Abraham. I also throw in periodically a question about John the Baptist - could he have chosen to be other than who he was foretold to be or to not serve in the capacity he was chosen to serve in?

I just don't take this into your view of election which I see as erroneous.



Your opinion has been noted many times and I and others have responded in detail as to how and why we disagree with you.



He may have. We're not specifically told. This is not the point of the parable which I've recently seen at least one other poster here deal with fairly extensively.

Since we're told he was left "half-dead" he may have accepted the help. At minimum he wasn't a "corpse" being regenerated so he could choose to be helped.

It occurred to me that using this analogy to support (one of the petals of TULIP) risks suggestion that there are times that God chooses to regard the half-dead man as the priest did. And the argument that He is only the good Samaritan suggests that He's okay with passing by more injured. I just read that Arminius started out as a student of Calvin, and I'm interested in learning what, if not who, might have influenced his breakaway.

 

[studier]

Is that what Eve did after she sinned? She used her God-given volition to save herself -- to "cooperate" with God -- to seize the "opportunity" (that He never offered!) for salvation?

As I've done before, I'll leave your discussions of Adam and Even to others. I don't care to discuss your seeds theories. Plus, your continual straw man of saving oneself is not worthy of response anymore.

Hesitantly, if you want to look closely at that section of Scripture and see what it says and doesn't say, I may be game, but I like @GWH is doing am going to attempt to take up the mantle of not dealing with your pejoratives anymore.

 

[HeIsHere]

Plus, your continual straw man of saving oneself is not worthy of response anymore.

They like that straw man a lot.

 

[Magenta]

Am I missing something here, a person cannot believe in the Gospel without personal direct, unique and special aid according to

Reformed Systematic Theology, but then they make an analogy with the sun shining?

Now to make a truer analogy, the person would not be able to believe in that sun shining based on sensory knowledge, UNLESS

they are given the personal, direct unique special aid correct @Cameron143

Eternal life (salvation) is knowing Jesus Christ.

Matthew 16 verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[GWH]

Exactly, the god of Reformed systems, contradictory ....along with He is entitled to be unfair because He is God, like that is any real apologetic.

Yes, and what makes God praiseworthy is that although He could choose to behave like the devil,
He promises to be eternally loving and just. Hallelujah!

 

[Magenta]

I know eh, "Jesus states/invites believe, (in the fullest meaning of the word in the ancient usage of the language) but people are not allowed to unless specifically drawn and given special, unique, divine revelation.

Yup, the Twilight Zone was great at revealing strange ideas.

How strange is it that you repeatedly claim God is unfair to do what He does???

Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verses 21 and 2:13; Ephesians 2 verses 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verses 6 and 2:13

 

[Lamar]

While reading these posts I often suspect that we are simply talking past each other.

And for the life of me I don't know how to fix the problem, not the blame.

Does anyone else feel this way?

 

[Magenta]

While reading these posts I often suspect that we are simply talking past each other.

And for the life of me I don't know how to fix the problem, not the blame.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Are you going to respond to my last post to you? It was the one after you projected your bitterness onto me.

It would be helpful also if you stopped immediately jumping to erroneous conclusions based on faulty assumptions.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, this is essentially "common grace" (Matt5:45) with the addition of part of our Lord's grace for His siblings.



Non-sequitur + other fallacies such as dogmatism, begging the question, false dichotomy. Then we can add in confirmation bias.

And very TULIP BTW.

You asked about man's volition. I answered about man's volition. How is that a non sequitur?

As the sun is the source of common grace to all mankind, the Son is the source grace to all Christians.

 

[studier]

And what makes you think that the actual "response" itself is not God's will!? You truly have no small blind spot to the sovereignty of God. You "freely" chose to reject several passages that teach that man's ways are NOT in himself!

Because it conflicts with too many Scriptures that speak of God's will that all be saved and of His providing His Son in this light.

You know this, so just accept it and stop asking.

God's sovereignty is baked into what I said. He's sovereignly chosen to respond to man's volition to accept or to reject Him. That's how I see His sovereign plan working.

Lydia believed in God and revered Him. He opened her heart to pay attention to Paul. From there the debate turns theological based upon various traditions.

I disagree with your system.

Our Father revealing to Peter who Jesus is also debated between various systems.

I accept that God reveled to Peter who Jesus is, that Jesus based His building His Ekklesia on this and that Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself post resurrection and that He sent the Spirit whom He said would glorify Him and would convict/convince (among its range of meanings) the kosmos of things.

 

[Cameron143]

False equivalence. The suns shines on all of us. In your theology forgiveness is limited to the chosen few.

What choice did the unchosen masses have in your theology?

Your original statement is false as you well know. I believe heaven is populated by a number no man can number. As we have already had this discussion, you are either forgetful or disingenuous.

 

[Magenta]

Lydia believed in God and revered Him. He opened her heart to pay attention to Paul.

That is not what Scripture says. Why do you change it???????? It says

The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. That means He opened her heart so she could/would believe the gospel.