Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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I think someone is depraved and has freewill. I don't know if someone walking in the spirit would be considered depraved though. I think we might not have the same experience Adam had when he was made and it affects our ability to see things and make decisions, but I think we are still exercising free will. I think I might have misunderstood the conversation though.
Another lie! Believers never suffer God's wrath. His wrath is reserved for unbelievers. "Wrath" isn't even mentioned in the above passage.
While I hope Adam and Eve are both in heaven I don't understand how Eve was elected to salvation here.
Hello Lee. I do believe you have misunderstood the conversation or certainly you have misunderstood the Bible because there is nothing absolutely nothing in the Bible about the unregenerated man being able to exercise his will to choose to decide to believe the gospel which is foolishness to him... And he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend the spiritual things of God to which he is inherently opposed while hostile in his mind to God as a slave to sin, captive to the will of the devil, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, being a lover of darkness and a slave to sin refusing to come into the light. It is Jesus who sets us free. Something the free will crowd seems to repeatedly refuse to acknowledge is that the unregenerated man has an incurably wicked heart their claim is that the unregenerated man is not such a bad guy despite everything said in the negative of him in Scripture from beginning to end. Jesus said a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
@LeeLoving
Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
@LeeLoving
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.
@LeeLoving How many of these questions would you answer "Yes" to?
What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?
What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?
Ah yes, I think our ability to act is severely hindered, but within that we are still free to choose what we like and thus exercise a free-will (from the unsaved perspective, I remember what that was like). It's like our nature was changed or something if we were meant to be purely benevolent, but at every point along the way we are still doing what we want to do.
Another lie! Believers never suffer God's wrath. His wrath is reserved for unbelievers. "Wrath" isn't even mentioned in the above passage.
God’s love is for all humanity but His wrath will be experienced by those who do not satisfy His requirement for forgiveness.
@LeeLoving How many of these questions would you answer "Yes" to?
What Say You? ~ When Scripture says there are none good, does it mean some are good? When Scripture says we all fall short, does it mean there are some who meet God's standards? When Scripture says, "The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned..." Does it mean the natural man can understand the spiritual things of God? Does it mean he really can understand the gospel message even though it is heard as foolishness to him as Scriptures say? Is the natural man gifted with wisdom even though he has no fear of God, which is the beginning of wisdom? Will the lover of darkness come into the light even though Scripture says he will not, because he suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness and is actually defined as darkness itself, hates the light, and is a slave to sin, blinded to the truth and captive to the will of the devil, which many define as being free? Is the heart of the natural man, the stony ground which needs to be replaced, fit for receiving and growing the Seed of God's Word into faith? Will that incurably wicked heart choose of its own accord to believe? Will that bad tree bring forth the good fruit of faith even though Jesus said it was not possible?
It's a lot to keep in my head when I go to make my post, sorry Magenta. I agree with the overall sentiment if I'm not mistaken though.
I was totally incapable of believing in Jesus until God did what he did and what happened happened with me. I tried numerous times and always gave up and would sin in short order. Totally incapable.Oh, yes..."depravity" is not a politically correct word in FWT. Yet, mankind is in bondage to its depravity!
2 Peter 2:19
19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity — for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
NIV
But hey...some FWers think it's pretty cool to be a slave to be imprisoned in their sinful nature because "freewill" will set those captives free!
No, we can work with "depravity". It's the dumb corpse analogy that's objected to.
There is a context to 2Pet2. It's not speaking about all unbelievers. If you think it is, using other Scriptures you should be able to show us why it is.
Thanks. Correct. You're in line with TULIP on this from what I understand (spiritually).
Another lie! Believers never suffer God's wrath. His wrath is reserved for unbelievers. "Wrath" isn't even mentioned in the above passage.
From the guy who's saying others need to learn and understand.
back at you.Review context and topic of the discussion you butted into.
Discuss with @GWH if he's still accepting discussions with you.
I don't subscribe to TULIP, despite the many claims people make. Like you, I consider scripture and come to an understanding. I'm amazed that so many who claim an independent study of God's word find it unreasonable that others have the same practice.
I know you don't "subscribe" to it. What you do seem to believe is very consistent with the "T" at minimum as I and others have noted to you.