Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[studier]

Studier, do you have the ability to fix the blue Scripture citations in what I copied from another thread?

Nope. I've noticed the system may not be working for copied and pasted posts. Here's a test:

God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3).

Here's a test of copying the text and retyping the verses with some different verse formats:

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 Heb12:4-11 Heb. 12:4-11

 

[studier]

@GWH looks like the system doesn't like copy & pasted verses.

 

[GWH]

@GWH looks like the system doesn't like copy & pasted verses.

Yes, I vaguely remember you saying that before, but thanks for trying again.
Retyping the format for Scripture citations on the website for CC posts is a pain when there are a lot!

 

[LeeLoving]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

I mean well yes, of course, when I move my arm I'm doing it because I want to though some movements might be autonomous. I'm making a free-will "decision' to move my arm. Everything you do is a free-will decision though it might not require any or much thought, I would think at least. Believing is different though as far as I know, you must be born of God. I tried for a long time to "believe" and failed many times until I had a supernatural experience. How everyone believes is different, I guess, but scripture in John 1 is clear that you must be born of God.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[studier]

No, they can't understand because they're corpses. And God did decree there eternal state in eternity.

I love it when you have these brief and rare honest moments. On the other hand, wiseguy, how can a corpse know anything?

Got it.

I knew you love me. I've come to the point where it's hard to take these threads seriously at all. There are so few posters that even deal with Scripture seriously and in context. It seems at time when Scripture shows up with intention, most of you fade away or divert from it.

An interesting thread - mainly the first half or so.

 

[studier]

You have no appreciation for sarcasm, do you?

But...on a serious note, we are talking about SPIRITUAL corpses that can only make decisions that are consistent with their evil nature.

Thus, SPIRITUAL corpses (which is really a dumb analogy) have no functional conscience that shows God's Law at work in the nations causing unbelieving men to make choices for some good Rom2 > thus all the moral unbelievers we see around us are actually closeted believers with the Spirit awaiting rebirth before believing.

Or maybe the fall and the evil nature and depravity are not that bad after all since there is some semblance of love and decentness to be found in the unbelieving world. In fact, some of them put many "believers" to shame (the RBThieme students might recall the line "you've never been cheated until you've been cheated by a Christian").

Or maybe the restraining influence of the Spirit in the world is not allowing men to only make decisions based upon their evil nature, but He slips up once in a while and we get someone we perceive to be truly evil unlike the rest of men. Or maybe it glorifies God to pick out some soul from eternity past and insert him into the world to be that truly evil person at a time of His choosing.

Please, let's not consider [limited] free will as it so obviously removes glory from God and His sovereign grace. God couldn't possibly endow men with such free will and be omniscient and omnipotent and omnipresent enough to deal with such a godlike characteristic in His creation. The Creator of the universe and all that's in it couldn't possibly do that.

You're worshipping a flower.

 

[Cameron143]

Not intentionally.
I copied the part that applied to what I said. It fit into posts between me & Rufus about the ability to read. Corpses can't read and understand.
I don't have a saddle.

If you had bothered to read the entire post with understanding, you would have known from the context that it had nothing to do with what @Rufus posted. While the language was similar, I wasn't speaking about spiritual understanding, but reading comprehension.
So please, post my entire posts if you quote me. I was accused of not answering a question when my response did answer the question, albeit, not directly. Again, about reading comprehension, and not spiritual understanding.

 

[studier]

Yes, I vaguely remember you saying that before, but thanks for trying again.
Retyping the format for Scripture citations on the website for CC posts is a pain when there are a lot!

Your pain > gain for others. Your cross to bear...

Then again on this media who needs Scripture.

 

[studier]

If you had bothered to read the entire post with understanding, you would have known from the context that it had nothing to do with what @Rufus posted. While the language was similar, I wasn't speaking about spiritual understanding, but reading comprehension.
So please, post my entire posts if you quote me. I was accused of not answering a question when my response did answer the question, albeit, not directly. Again, about reading comprehension, and not spiritual understanding.

Pardon my jest. No one truly sounds like @Rufus, thus my jest was unfair. Though your T is very TULIP.

 

[Cameron143]

Pardon my jest. No one truly sounds like @Rufus, thus my jest was unfair. Though your T is very TULIP.

I doubt we have the same understanding of depravity to begin with. And if you base it off a post dealing with reading comprehension, you will only further misunderstand. I'm all for jesting. Sometimes find it quite witty. I was simply objecting to the misrepresentation of my words.

 

[Rufus]

So we can make good and moral choices?

Define "we". Who is "we": Everyone on the planet or Christians?

 

[Magenta]

I don't have a saddle.

Do you not understand what a metaphor is?

 

[Magenta]

@GWH looks like the system doesn't like copy & pasted verses.

You have hot linked them which overrides the built in software.

 

[Magenta]

I doubt we have the same understanding of depravity to begin with.

It is my understanding that most people have a knee jerk reaction to the word depravity, and few
get past that, despite man's inability, which is an offshoot of his depravity, which is not exclusive
to Calvinism. However, generally speaking, the CDS crowd is not interested in the truth of the matter.

 

[Rufus]

Where in Scripture does God reveal that Adam will be thrown in the lake of fire?
.And

Very strange answer to my question. Since you ducked my question altogether, I have to conclude that you don't know the answer. Maybe God couldn't figure out what to do with Adam. Maybe God figured, "Two are company and three's a crowd, so Adam wasn't explicitly designated as being anyone's seed. Maybe the Lord just left Adam to figure it out for himself.

Furthermore, your question to me is an argument from silence! I could just as easily ask: Where in scripture is it revealed that Adam made it into the Pearly Gates? It's best to stick with what is revealed in the Word. And what clearly is revealed in Gen 3:15 is that God ordained that the entire world would consist of two spiritual seeds: The children of God and the children of the devil (1Jn 3:12; Jn 8:44).
And since Adam was excluded from God's decree to the Serpent, did not descend from Eve as all HER godly seed would, and Adam would not be the one who would "seed" Eve's godly line, then it seems that there's only one option left.

 

[LeeLoving]

In Romans 5 it says that death reigned from Adam to Moses. If death is the result of sin it might be that everyone was utterly sinful and lost, to my reckoning at least. I don't fully understand that though. I would think Noah would be saved and Enoch too, maybe others. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

 

[LeeLoving]

In Romans 5 it says that death reigned from Adam to Moses. If death is the result of sin it might be that everyone was utterly sinful and lost, to my reckoning at least. I don't fully understand that though. I would think Noah would be saved and Enoch too, maybe others. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

Actually I think I am reading that way way wrong, sorry about that.

 

[Rufus]

It is my understanding that most people have a knee jerk reaction to the word depravity, and few
get past that, despite man's inability, which is an offshoot of his depravity, which is not exclusive
to Calvinism. However, generally speaking, the CDS crowd is not interested in the truth of the matter.

Oh, yes..."depravity" is not a politically correct word in FWT. Yet, mankind is in bondage to its depravity!

2 Peter 2:19
19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity — for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
NIV

But hey...some FWers think it's pretty cool to be a slave to be imprisoned in their sinful nature because "freewill" will set those captives free!

 

[studier]

I doubt we have the same understanding of depravity to begin with.

Clarify "we" please.

 

[Rufus]

In Romans 5 it says that death reigned from Adam to Moses. If death is the result of sin it might be that everyone was utterly sinful and lost, to my reckoning at least. I don't fully understand that though. I would think Noah would be saved and Enoch too, maybe others. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

God has never been without a faithful remnant on this earth. And the first faithful remnant on record immediately after the Fall was Eve, who acknowledged God and expressed faith in Him after He elected her to salvation (Gen 3:15).