Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Avery]

Back to the beginning of the circle hih he has to secretly choose to enable you to hear about Jesus dying for your sins … then has to make you believe what he made you able to hear but not the other sinners they aren’t able to believe and be saved because of course he only offers salvation to certain chosen people that he secretly apart from the gospel enables ……because they are the chosen ones

this place is hard to get anywhere lol

Agree. I’ve never read so many differing and unbiblical views. Didn’t Jesus say in John 3:16 that WHOEVER believes in him would have everlasting life? And he told Nicodemus that he (we) must be born again? Romans 10 Paul writes, “But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” The gospel is no secret. It’s out there for everyone.
But it doesn’t end with salvation. This is only the beginning of the journey. God has so much to show us about Himself; there are hidden riches for those who seek Him in a deeper way, (1corinthians 2). The goal is a deeper walk with Him and to keep being formed into the image of his son, Jesus Christ. This is the Kingdom; that we learn to think like Him, act like Him and love as He does. It may not be completely attainable in this life but it’s a worthy goal, and one that I aim to work toward as much as I can as I get to know him more and more.

 

[Kroogz]

More ignorance, and a false appeal to emotionalism. It's not my job to make decisions that are God's alone to determine. My responsibility is to raise my children in the fear and the admonition of the Lord. The increase is always left to God. I'm not called to be a good and successful servant; only a good and faithful servant. My children, as is all humanity, are in the hands of God.

It's our job to tell our children/friends/family/strangers that God died for them. And they and anyone they know can be saved.


We are not an exclusive club. ANYONE can be included.

 

[cv5]

didn’t God give us free will or the option to choose for ourselves what we would do with life? Choices… we have the choice to accept or reject the offer of eternal life offered by God through the sacrifice of His son, Jesus Christ.

think of it this way; if man had no free will then Adam and Eve would never have disobeyed God by eating the fruit in the Garden and there would have been no need for a Savior. if no free will we would be a bunch of robots.
God wants relationship; therefore he wants us to choose him. We can’t make that choice without free will. We love Him because He first loved us, not because we‘re programmed to do so.

True.

In fact, we, each and every one of us believers MUST go through the Jewish betrothal ceremony so noted here:
[Mat 26:27 NKJV]
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.

[Mat 26:28 NKJV]
"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[2Co 11:2 NKJV]
For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

This betrothal predicated upon a FREE WILL DECISION of the Bride.
She may REFUSE THE CUP is she CHOOSES to reject the Husband.

And how many rather CHOOSE to say:
[Luk 19:14 KJV]
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We ***will not*** have this [man] to reign over us.

******************************************************************************************

And as we well know, the super-determinists vociferously deny the Bride's FREE WILL, rather they demand a scenario that has Holy God kidnapping lobotomized clueless helpless young ladies, then forcing them into an outrageous tyrannical shotgun wedding far beyond their ability to escape or deny the process or the overarching will of the Bridegroom.

Which is of course is unbiblical, revolting and preposterous.

The TRUTH of the matter of betrothal is that the Bridegroom WOO's and lovingly INVITES the Bride by displaying His Righteousness and Holiness and power. Should the prospective bride find such attributes revolting, or finds fault or deficiency in the Bridegroom, she has EVERY RIGHT AND ABILITY to reject Him.

And in fact many say "I do" or "I don't" for these very reasons.

 

[Cameron143]

It's our job to tell our children/friends/family/strangers that God died for them. And they and anyone they know can be saved.


We are not an exclusive club. ANYONE can be included.

I recognize this is your understanding of scripture. I don't believe it comports with the full counsel of scripture.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

didn’t God give us free will or the option to choose for ourselves what we would do with life? Choices… we have the choice to accept or reject the offer of eternal life offered by God through the sacrifice of His son, Jesus Christ.

think of it this way; if man had no free will then Adam and Eve would never have disobeyed God by eating the fruit in the Garden and there would have been no need for a Savior. if no free will we would be a bunch of robots.
God wants relationship; therefore he wants us to choose him. We can’t make that choice without free will. We love Him because He first loved us, not because we‘re programmed to do so.

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you look he set life and death before then in Eden also and they choose death by eating the fruit he said wouod bring death. And they were free to eat of any of the trees but warned them not to eat of one deadly tree

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

infact it’s present throughout scriptire God was always giving them a choice cain also

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?

If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

of course tbat first wuote was from Israel’s covenant tbat states plainly they were given a choice between good and evil life and death just like Adam and Eve we’re just like cain was told you can be accepted or not based on what you choose to do

and then after they broke thier covenant he set before then life and death god explains it was thier choices that led them to this place of cursing

“I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them;

because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:4‬ ‭

Of course you’re right god created us free but what happens is this world is filled with both good and evil and we end up having to choose like they all did have to choose .

it’s really a spiritually crippling belief that we can’t choose or that someone else is forcing us to do good or evil and we just can’t repent and obey the lord . It’s like shackling our own self with a lie so that we won’t ever learn to choose the good

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—

( option 1) whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death,

( option 2) or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The choice we make of which to serve in life and what we do is ours but as we compromise to sin we become corrupted and influences by the devils Will which is sin and death and then we are bond servants of sin needing redemption. So we have to hear and choose the lord acknolwedgong our sins and need for remission


but it’s after we freely choose sin and become servants we choose and then get in a bind and need saving

 

[GWH]

Thanks for reading my post and I'm glad that we agree on some of the points being discussed.

Me too, and I might mention that the context for my interpretation of 2Tim. 1:8-10 is Eph. 1:3-13.

 

[cv5]

Back to the beginning of the circle hih he has to secretly choose to enable you to hear about Jesus dying for your sins … then has to make you believe what he made you able to hear but not the other sinners they aren’t able to believe and be saved because of course he only offers salvation to certain chosen people that he secretly apart from the gospel enables ……because they are the chosen ones

this place is hard to get anywhere lol

And who in their right mind would CHOOSE to marry a spooky kooky crazy conspiratorial Husband like that?

Right?

I mean any person who would engage society with that sort of motive and mandate has the mindset of a megalomaniac with a criminal psychological profile.

Which is why so many find the Jesus that super-determinist present as abhorrent.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's our job to tell our children/friends/family/strangers that God died for them. And they and anyone they know can be saved.


We are not an exclusive club. ANYONE can be included.

Amen

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

v god loved a certain chosen group that were always saved from the beginning so he sent Jesus to save those few chosen ones

v God our savior who will have only his chosen favorites saved

v god is not willing that his chosen few perish but that those few come to repentance

 

[Kroogz]

I recognize this is your understanding of scripture. I don't believe it comports with the full counsel of scripture.

I understand that. And I understand full well what you believe......It just gives you the HEEBIE-JEBBIES when one can go beyond the fine print and plainly state what you dance around.

 

[Avery]

This certainly is a convoluted subject. I really hope no one was offended by my posts; that was certainly not my intention. I guess that’s why we were instructed to be swift to hear and slow to speak. I think I’ll do more reading and less posting in the future. God bless all.

 

[Magenta]

Otherwise, they would be forced to be opened up inside their own assumptions.

It's really nuts how we can assert what the Bible does say and suddenly they have us claiming we are robots or don't make any choices at all... they are so bound up in their closed little minds' black and white thinking they cannot function outside of it... and then the false accusations and misrepresentations that come when they refuse to admit they are wrong. And all the logical fallacies, too! If man does not have free will, fill in the blanks. Jeepers. A variety of fallacies and non sequiturs galore just pour out. Just as troubling the self-proclaimed scholars swinging their dips around while they strip Biblical words of their meaning.

 

[Magenta]

This certainly is a convoluted subject. I really hope no one was offended by my posts; that was certainly not my intention. I guess that’s why we were instructed to be swift to hear and slow to speak. I think I’ll do more reading and less posting in the future. God bless all.

No worries. It is a complex subject and Scripture should be our guide, not the traditions of man and vain philosophies.

 

[Cameron143]

And who in their right mind would CHOOSE to marry a spooky kooky crazy conspiratorial Husband like that?

Right?

I mean any person who would

I understand that. And I understand full well what you believe......It just gives you the HEEBIE-JEBBIES when one can go beyond the fine print and plainly state what you dance around.

Once again you put your ignorance on display. You still have never shown how any verses that limit the natural fallen man in regard to salvation are satisfied. You simply ignore portions of scripture rather than reconcile them. BTW...you are equally ignorant of what gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[GWH]

Me too, and I might mention that the context for my interpretation of 2Tim. 1:8-10 is Eph. 1:3-13.

The doctrine of election can also be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.

1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10).

 

[Cameron143]

It's really nuts how we can assert what the Bible does say and suddenly they have us claiming we are robots or don't make any choices at all... they are so bound up in their closed little minds' black and white thinking they cannot function outside of it... and then the false accusations and misrepresentations that come when they refuse to admit they are wrong. And all the logical fallacies, too! If man does not have free will, fill in the blanks. Jeepers. A variety of fallacies and non sequiturs galore just pour out. Just as troubling the self-proclaimed scholars swinging their dips around while they strip Biblical words of their meaning.

Especially in light of the fact that those who would label us as determinists are equally deterministic. They merely transfer the determinism from God to man.

 

[GWH]

Especially in light of the fact that those who would label us as determinists are equally deterministic. They merely transfer the determinism from God to man.

No, we volitionists realize that viewing God as desiring to elect only some contradicts Scripture
teaching that God loves all and does not show favoritism.

 

[lrs68]

Jesus explains the Holy Spirit as the WIND.

He said the wind comes and we can hear it, we can see how it causes things to move so we know that is the wind.

He also said no one knows where the wind comes from nor do they know where it is going.



Then Jesus explains Regeneration.

He said it's like being born, a rebirth not of flesh but of the Spirit.



The question is WHY is a person rebirthed or in spiritual terminology Regenerated?
The simplest explanation is for the purpose to be Saved.
It's a preparation process that happens before Salvation [(which means a person is completely saved)].
Biblically speaking, Regeneration is the Holy Spirit changing a person from the state of being lost without God to a state of being able to be saved by God.


The process of Regeneration until Salvation can only be done by God.


So what did the person do to come to a point where they can be Regenerated and Saved?
They agreed to be in a position to [(hear the Gospel preached)].
Whether by radio (they felt like turning on), whether by television (they felt like turning on), listening to a friend or someone's Testimony (they felt like listening to the person describing the Gospel and their own transformation), they agreed to go to Church and hear the Gospel preached (they felt like going and did), but no one dragged them or made them listen they felt like doing it and did.


What happened while hearing the Gospel preached?
The Holy Spirit of God opened them to understand what they were hearing [(this is Regeneration)] and they believed and realized they needed the Gift of Salvation and was given that Gift.


This happened to all of us one way or another.

 

[Rufus]

Amen

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

v god loved a certain chosen group that were always saved from the beginning so he sent Jesus to save those few chosen ones

v God our savior who will have only his chosen favorites saved

v god is not willing that his chosen few perish but that those few come to repentance

Still interpreting all the above passages out of context, not to mention your use of the eisegetical method, as well.

 

[Rufus]

No, we volitionists realize that viewing God as desiring to elect only some contradicts Scripture
teaching that God loves all and does not show favoritism.

Since when did doctrinal differences with scripture that result in contradictions ever both you?

 

[Cameron143]

No, we volitionists realize that viewing God as desiring to elect only some contradicts Scripture
teaching that God loves all and does not show favoritism.

No. You say man through volition is the final arbiter of salvation. Man determines his own fate.