Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

God's Word communicates His will and describes His power to humans.

It does far more than that it upholds the universe and saves people. The word of God is real power which is why we must never treat it with disdain or folly.

 

[GWH]

I believe the emphasis of the debate has been misplaced!
It has nothing to do with free will.

Here is what the infamous TULIP vs Arminianism argument misses.

It does not matter that we do not have the free will to save ourselves.
(the following detail always gets obscured in the heat of the debate)

For, even if we have free will?
I would not matter!

Because, we do not have the ABILITY to save ourselves.

Someone else with the ability to save us, did so.
He only asks for us to accept His offer for us to have it apply to our life.

If it did not require our recognition of the work of the Cross?
Then God could save us, and might not even let us know that He did.

Mull that one over, please.

You need to mull over the misplaced love of God for those He does not save but condemns to hell.
The emphasis of the entire Bible is on human moral volition and thus accountability for sin.

 

[GWH]

It does far more than that it upholds the universe and saves people. The word of God is real power which is why we must never treat it with disdain or folly.

Yes.

 

[GWH]

Which means His power to save is not in His will but His word.

I don't think we are on the same page. You keep arguing against things I am not saying. I have a feeling there might be things you believe that I have never heard of, like the lake of fire is not the end punishment for unbelievers? Maybe you think that, I don't know?

The time for repentance ends but the rejection doesn't, this is why they are eternally separated. They can never, ever be allowed into the fold. The fire constantly strips away the falsehoods unbelievers use now to justify their unbelief so they are forever facing the truth of their willful rejection of God.

It is not willful if they have no other choice. What you describe is a programmed/determined robot.

 

[GWH]

You keep making "love paramount."

The resolving issue in salvation (and condemnation) does not concern Love.
It has everything to do with God's Justice, not love.

I make both love and justice paramount, but you don't and seem to have a Calvinist digest version of Scripture.

 

[Genez]

You need to mull over the misplaced love of God for those He does not save but condemns to hell.
The emphasis of the entire Bible is on human moral volition and thus accountability for sin.

Jesus then?
Did not pay the penalty for the sins of the world?

The only sins the believer is accountable for are the ones that require 1 John 1:9 to undo the effects of cutting off a believer
from the filling of the Spirit.

The unbeliever will not have his sins even mentioned at his time of judgment.
Did you know that?

 

[Genez]

I make both love and justice paramount, but you don't and seem to have a Calvinist digest version of Scripture.

Without God's justice first being satisfied you would remain cut off from the love of God.

 

[GWH]

Jesus then?
Did not pay the penalty for the sins of the world?

The only sins the believer is accountable for are the ones that require 1 John 1:9 to undo the effects of cutting off a believer
from the filling of the Spirit.

The unbeliever will not have his sins even mentioned at his time of judgment.
Did you know that?

Yes, Jesus atoned for all sins.

Yes, after receiving salvation believers should confess known sins per 1JN 1:9 and strive for moral perfection per PHP 3:12-15.

The unbeliever will have to pay the punishment for his sins at the Judgment per RM 2:6-9.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Can't help thinking you're in on the trolling GWH, you keep feeding the troll/trolls. I will be requesting a deletion and will explain why.

 

[TMS]

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

“For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭

“but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:31‬ ‭

What can I say... these are all great bible verses
Christ gave us His life to save us from sin.

 

[TMS]

Is TMS your initials? or Trans-cranial Magnetic Stimulation?

Not sure if I should take it as a compliment or not

 

[sawdust]

It is not willful if they have no other choice. What you describe is a programmed/determined robot.

No I'm not. How do you even come up with that?

I'm beginning to think it's more than different pages, more like different books.

You were saying punishment ends because sin has an ending but people don't go to the lake of fire because of their sins, (the Cross dealt with the issue of sin), they're there for their rejection of God which never ends, therefore the punishment never ends. Rejecting God is more than committing a sin (wrongdoing), it is wickedness.

 

[TMS]

The soul of the unbeliever will leave the body... and will be dead physically.
Such a soul of the unbeliever was already dead spiritually.

What about the soul of the believer when the saved die what happens???
Give bible verses.

 

[sawdust]

The unbeliever will have to pay the punishment for his sins at the Judgment per RM 2:6-9.

That's double jeopardy. They can't both pay.

 

[Genez]

Yes, Jesus atoned for all sins.

Yes, after receiving salvation believers should confess known sins per 1JN 1:9 and strive for moral perfection per PHP 3:12-15.

The unbeliever will have to pay the punishment for his sins at the Judgment per RM 2:6-9.

Romans 2:6-9 mentions 'evil.' Not sin.

 

[Genez]

What about the soul of the believer when the saved die what happens???
Give bible verses.

Of the believer?

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. ​

​

2 Cor 5:8​

 

[TMS]

What part of "only man's soul is created in God's image" did you not understand? This is why we can think and act at a higher level than animals. Their souls are not created in God's image.

You are following pagan thinking... the soul according to the bible is a physical body and the breath of life. According to pagan teachings it is a spirit that exists without the body. Research it.
The soul is never said to be immortal.
You do not give any Bible verses to support your thinking.

It's not from pagan sources, the Bible speaks of "no death for the wicked".

Mark 9:48
where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.

Their worm (anguish) never dies but their soul does??

Daniel 12:2
Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake— some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.

Life is everlasting but but their condemnation isn't?

The Greeks taught the immortality of the soul meaning one cannot die but @Genez said the soul is everlasting. I take that to mean it is designed to live forever but sin can disrupt this quality of life so that a life of shame, condemnation and abhorrence is no life at all. He is welcome to correct me if I misunderstood.

Death comes in many forms.

Research the translation please.

The first lie of the devil was ....
You shall never die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Where is King David's soul now?
He was saved. His a saved soul.

The word everlasting needs to be understood correctly.

The worm or anguish never dies.....
The worm or

 

[sawdust]

You are following pagan thinking... the soul according to the bible is a physical body and the breath of life. According to pagan teachings it is a spirit that exists without the body. Research it.
The soul is never said to be immortal.
You do not give any Bible verses to support your thinking.


Research the translation please.

The first lie of the devil was ....
You shall never die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Where is King David's soul now?
He was saved. His a saved soul.

The word everlasting needs to be understood correctly.

The worm or anguish never dies.....
The worm or

That's hilarious. I never give bible verses as you quote my post with scripture.

We are souls. God created the souls Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:27. He formed Adam's body in Gen.2:7 from the dirt and breathed into him the breath of lives upon which he became a living soul. The soul created in Gen.1:27 is now breathed into the body formed in Gen.2:7 along with a human spirit.

I never said the soul is immortal.
I never said we are spirits.

We are born body and soul only which is why we must be born from above.

Pagans wouldn't understand what I'm saying anymore than you do.

 

[TMS]

For some reason only half of my post above was added...
The worm or anguish never dies ...
Or never dies while alive. While we live.

The anguish never dies until we die or stop sinning.

Lev 6:13 KJV The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.

Is the fire burning today?

Jud 1:7 KJV Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Is Sodom burning today...

The results are everlasting and death is everlasting for the unsaved soul.

But burn in hell is a pagan teaching.

The God I love does not burn people in hell forever and ever because they sinned for a lifetime.

The Loving God is merciful and Just.
He is righteous and eternal pain in burning hell is not justice for 100 years of sin.

 

[TMS]

The soul created in Gen.1:27 is now breathed into the body formed in Gen.2:7 along with a human spirit.

It doesn't say that.