Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

You need a break from this thread magenta,

Have a nice little rest, put your feet up and Keep your chin up love.

This thread will still be here ranting on in few days.

I can't stand this thread any longer so I'll be bowing out, take care of your feelings and guard that kind heart of yours.

You've done your best but there's just no way to break through, as haters will be haters love, there pulling you down bit by bit, all your doing is fueling there fire.

I can't bare to witness this, I would love to stay and help out but I just can't put up with this thread any longer.

Take care

No worries, Jordon, thank you for your very kind words, and all your fine contributions to this thread.

I sometimes have similar thoughts, but I was called into apologetics three years into my Christian walk and I am as passionate about it as ever, if not even more so, as I have learned so very much in all these years (closing in on seventeen now), the first quite a few (close to 8) spent talking almost exclusively to atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists, as well as theists of other stripes, polytheists, Satanists, Wiccans, you name it... and I have seen how God works all things to the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. His purpose! Some of these free willers have zero awareness of being called out of the world, and some have zero knowledge of God according to the things they say, since He is only known by personal spiritual revelation which they scorn. Liars, false accusers, and blasphemers are not chasing me away! Some of them are not much different than the hard-hearted non-believers and maltheists I have conversed with in years gone by. I wonder where some of them are now, as I have quite fond memories of the ones I remember, and I love encouraging the newcomer, those new to the faith, and the seeker when they arrive here. I remain standing for the Truth. Thank you for your concern. I love God and praise Him for all He has done and continues to do in my life and this garners condemnation from some. Go figure!

Praise the Lord for He is good His love endures forever

 

[HeIsHere]

Always changing the subject when you are shown to be wrong.

More lol, that is what you do.

It is directly related, people can and do "believe" prior to regeneration, regeneration always follows faith and scripture is clear about the correct order.

 

[Magenta]

here you go @Magenta here it is again.

Religious racism is what your dealing with.

But it gets worse m, someone telling you to abandon your life long faith.

That gets worse as it makes you feel worthless.

Responding to people when you feel this way, you may not give a response that is normally in your character, this is where they've then stole something from you.

Or when they've pulled yet another piece from you.

But you can rise above it and just respond in kindness.

A nice thought here is through the aid of our church fathers many have been led

I do not see the post you may have quoted as I have many of the liars on ignore.
If their hatred and venomous spewing overly disturbs you I would suggest you
do the same so you do not get pulled down to their level where they want you.

 

[Jordon]

I do not see the post you may have quoted as I have many of the liars on ignore.
If their hatred and venomous spewing overly disturbs you I would suggest you
do the same so you do not get pulled down to their level where they want you.

Sorry you have to deal with this.

But it looks like there's a group at work here.

 

[cv5]

And they accuse us (those who have faith in the right order) as misrepresenting their views.

Backwards is as backwards does..,..

"fall backwards...." happening in real time around here moment by moment.

 

[cv5]

Humbly acknowledging that one is a sinner and in need of a Savior is awesome. However, the natural man never comes to this estate except for the convicting work of the Spirit. It's not something that the natural man either desires or seeks, and is only evident when the Spirit is at work in an individual.

Let's see how you misrepresent this.

The "natural man" has by his own volition "receive(d) not".

 

[Cameron143]

The "natural man" has by his own volition "receive(d) not".

Sure. That is his default position given his fallen estate. He will always choose contrary to God. That's why the work of the Spirit is essential to salvation. It's also evidence that the will of the natural man is not free and is governed by his fallen natural estate.

 

[cv5]

Can you find pre-selection in the Bible? No.

Sure I can. That is exactly what the "bad" Pharisees believed.

A kind of religious elitism that Jesus debunked and excoriated.

Which today is now known as super-determinism, a self appointed class of religious elites who say that they, and they alone have exclusive access to salvation and the God who grants it.

Same soup warmed over.

 

[cv5]

Sure. That is his default position given his fallen estate. He will always choose contrary to God. That's why the work of the Spirit is essential to salvation. It's also evidence that the will of the natural man is not free and is governed by his fallen natural estate.

Go tell your theory to Gene Roddenberry.

 

[HeIsHere]

Sure. That is his default position given his fallen estate. He will always choose contrary to God. That's why the work of the Spirit is essential to salvation. It's also evidence that the will of the natural man is not free and is governed by his fallen natural estate.

"work of the spirit" >>> regeneration prior to faith.

Just to be clear.

 

[Magenta]

Sorry you have to deal with this.

But it looks like there's a group at work here.

Sure, they are called minions. Jesus quoted Scripture to the devil. Since they cannot refute the Scriptures given they often resort to getting personal but I am not here to defend myself against such liars, false accusers, and hypocrites. It is as I said before a downward spiral circling the drain and I have no desire to go there as is their desire. They do not like having the truth about themselves exposed, but that is their problem if they blaspheme God because they refuse to admit when they are wrong. If you noticed yesterday others got on board with the blasphemer trying to make Scripture say something it does not. This is their modus operandi much of the time. Distort, twist, add to, take away from, contradict, and outright deny what the revealed Word of God says. It is diabolical.

 

[Cameron143]

Sure I can. That is exactly what the "bad" Pharisees believed.

A kind of religious elitism that Jesus debunked and excoriated.

Which today is now known as super-determinism, a self appointed class of religious elites who say that they, and they alone have exclusive access to salvation and the God who grants it.

Same soup warmed over.

Find the term in the Bible. It's not there. What you will find is election. Much different than preselection. Learn the difference.

 

[Rufus]

There is only one true God and the God I know and have even met personally does not have favoritism and does not have a selected people to save and others not he is warm and full of love and grace like a big warm heated blanket that covers the entire earth

Everyone has their view of him but to know him personally to know his nature his traits his smile even that is another matter entirely.
people can provide all the scripture they want to me and I still will tell them who he is even if it contradicts all the evidence presented. My father the one I know and serve and have personally met he loves all gives grace to all and desires to save all

God loves those who are IN Christ, i.e. His elect (1Tim 1:14); therefore, God cannot possibly love the world in the distributive sense with a personal, intimate, filial covenantal love, unless one posits that the entire ungodly world is IN Christ! This is why Jesus didn't pray for the world in Jn 17 that so many boldly allege He loved so much! IOW, God loves NO ONE, with the kind of love described above, who is outside of Christ! And this biblical fact squares nicely with God's New Covenant promises of instilling the Fear of the Lord and spiritually circumcising the hearts of only his covenant people. Those promises were never made to the world In fact, all the promises that God made to Israel and the Church are "yes" IN Christ (2Cor 1:20). Therefore, they are "no" to those outside of Christ!

 

[cv5]

Find the term in the Bible. It's not there. What you will find is election. Much different than preselection. Learn the difference.

The term "Roman concrete" is not in there either, but Jesus was walking on it every day.

 

[cv5]

But it looks like there's a group at work here.

Yup. We are known as the "religious anti-racist anti-elitists" aka preachers of the true gospel of salvation, available to all those who will to do His will.

Paul is our role model.

 

[Rufus]

is it possible for you to be less bombastic ... do you think you have it in you?

I have to ask because it does not appear you have taken to heart what is written in Philippians 2 ... allow me to introduce you to vs 3 ... Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.





by reading what is revealed in Scripture would be the best source for knowing "what good is!" ... knowing "what good is!" does not require someone to "know what evil is" notwithstanding your insistence to the contrary.

And scripture doesn't also reveal what evil is!? Scripture only reveals what is good!?

maybe you should study what does God mean that the knowledge of good is "instilled innately into every man's heart".

No human being needs scripture per se to tell him what is good and evil. God has done that for all his image-bearers by giving everyone a conscience (albeit as corrupted it became after the Fall) AND by writing the works of the Law upon every man's heart. Every single human being intuitively knows good from evil, so that every man is without excuse. A Hindu who has never heard the gospel or read the bible knows good from evil. Ditto for the Muslim, and ditto for people raised in remote jungles, etc.

 

[Magenta]

Sure. That is his default position given his fallen estate. He will always choose contrary to God. That's why the work of the Spirit is essential to salvation. It's also evidence that the will of the natural man is not free and is governed by his fallen natural estate.

What some of these FWers call the efficacious power of God is really only partial power and
potentially completely ineffective since they transfer the defining end result to the individual
whom they claim has the choice to refuse what God says will actually come to be.

 

[rogerg]

Sure. That is his default position given his fallen estate. He will always choose contrary to God. That's why the work of the Spirit is essential to salvation. It's also evidence that the will of the natural man is not free and is governed by his fallen natural estate.

cv5 left off the "neither can he know them" part. Meaning, that it is completely beyond natural man's power and ability to give to himself.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Jordon]

Sure, they are called minions. Jesus quoted Scripture to the devil. Since they cannot refute the Scriptures given they often resort to getting personal but I am not here to defend myself against such liars, false accusers, and hypocrites. It is as I said before a downward spiral circling the drain and I have no desire to go there as is their desire. They do not like having the truth about themselves exposed, but that is their problem if they blaspheme God because they refuse to admit when they are wrong. If you noticed yesterday others got on board with the blasphemer trying to make Scripture say something it does not. This is their modus operandi much of the time. Distort, twist, add to, take away from, contradict, and outright deny what the revealed Word of God says. It is diabolical.

I wouldn't be surprised if this religious racism mob at work here are private messaging each other.

I'm glad you can handle it, but I feel our time is just being wasted here.

 

[Jordon]

Yup. We are known as the "religious anti-racist anti-elitists" aka preachers of the true gospel of salvation, available to all those who will to do His will.

Paul is our role model.